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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMINUTES - 10041994 - H.4 H. 3 and H.4 THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS OF CONTRA COSTA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA Adopted this Order on October 4. 1994 by the following vote: AYES: Supervisors Smith, Bishop, DeSaulnier, Torlakson and Powers NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: None SUBJECT: Report From The director, Growth Management and Economic Development Agency, to Consider Tipping Fees and Other Landfill Relation Actions; and Hearing On Amendment 1 to Land Use Permit 2020-89 Regulating Keller Canyon Landfill, Bay Point/Pittsburg Area. On September 27, 1994 the Board of Supervisors continued to this date the hearing on the recommendation of the Contra Costa County Planning Commission on the request of the Keller Canyon Landfill Company (applicant and owner) for approval of Amendment 1 to Land Use Permit 2020-89 which regulates Keller Canyon Landfill . Amendment 1 proposes to delete or revise conditions of approval established by LUP 2020-89 pertaining to fees paid by the Landfill to Contra Costa County. These include fees for transportation and open space, and resource recovery. Some fees may be eliminated or reduced. Rate setting conditions would be modified. Area-of-origin provisions would be revised for consistency with recent federal court decisions . Amendment 1 does not propose any physical changes to the Landfill facility or site, or any changes to its operating requirements . None of the fee changes affect mitigation measures imposed by the Landfill' s Environmental Impact Report . A Notice of Exemption has been filed pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act, in the Bay Point/Pittsburg area; and On September 27, 1994, the Board of Supervisors also continued to this date the report from the Director, Growth Management and Economic Development Agency to consider tipping fees (their amounts and levels) and other landfill related actions . Val Alexeeff, Director, Growth Management and Economic Development Agency, presented the staff report addressing concerns raised by the Board at the September 27, 1994 meeting. Supervisor Powers requested clarification on the number of the land use permit issues that had been referred to the Planning Commission. Charles Zahn, Community Development Department, responded to Supervisor Powers request . Victor Westman, County Counsel, commented on a memorandum provided by his office to address some of the concerns contained in a letter from Mr. Randall Morrison from last week. Supervisor Powers inquired as to whether there was a letter or written document from Browning Ferris Industries which reflects conditions upon which the proprietary rates will be reduced. Tom Bruen, representing Browning Ferris Industries, responded that there had been a letter provided two or three hearings back and he commented on a proposal to the Central Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority and to the Browning Ferris Franchises which would result in the combined rate for the transfer station and the landfill at Keller Canyon being reduced to $39 a ton in exchange for a seventeen month wastestream commitment . Supervisor Powers and Mr. Bruen discussed the proposed rate . The following persons appeared and presented testimony: Frank Aiello, 1734 Bridgeview, Pittsburg, representing Citizens United; Lance Dow, 2232 Concord Drive, Pittsburg; Supervisor Smith inquired about lowering the proprietary rate and justifying previous Board action, and a possible refund to the rate payer. Mr. Bruen responded on going back to the assumptions made by Deloitte Touche when the rate was originally set for the Keller Canyon Landfill . Supervisor Powers inquired about the ability of Browning Ferris Industries to address the environmental issues as a losing proposition. Mr. Bruen advised that the parent company stands behind this operation like all of its operations and that that really should not be an issue . Supervisor Bishop requested clarification on a copy of a landfill receipt that was provided by Supervisor Powers and why the rate is still what it is, and on most of the changes to the conditions being housekeeping changes, or relating to things that are no longer applicable, not truly substantive changes . Mr. Bruen responded that his understanding of the amendments was to clean up the use permit to give this Board discretion to act in accordance with its view of the best interests of the rate payers and public policy. Supervisor Bishop inquired as to the assets of Browning Ferris Inc . Mr. Bruen responded that he did not have a specific answer but would be happy to provide it . Supervisor DeSaulnier inquired as to the difference between the $39 rate and what was being offered some five months ago. Mr. Bruen responded on the differences . Supervisor Torlakson inquired as to Browning Ferris Industries' position on any change in the mitigation fees whether they are batched together in a generic mitigation Land Use Permit condition. Mr. Bruen responded that they support the staff recommendation and the recommendation of the Planning Commission before the Board with respect to the Land Use Permit and that the franchise agreement has an anti-challenge clause in it . Victor Westman, County Counsel, inquired whether Browning Ferris Inc . is going to accept the franchises which the County has offered to them, and that the amendments to the land use permit are to some extent premised on the acceptance of the franchises that the Board approved a few weeks ago. i Mr. Bruen responded affirmatively and commented that there were a couple of clerical changes that need to be made in the agreement where they felt that it does not reflect what the Board did but the form of the agreements is acceptable to them. Supervisor Torlakson expressed discomfort with removing the fee language from the land use permit and placing it in the franchise agreement . Mr. Westman suggested consideration of a condition if the Board approves the amendments to the land use permit that they would not become operative until Browning Ferris Industries and whatever other corporation have executed the franchise . The Board discussed the issue of the fees and their placement in documents . Randall Morrison, 1999 Harrison Street, Oakland, representing Valley Waste Management, expressed concerns with BFI lowering the proprietary rate . The Board discussed the issues raised by Mr. Morrison. Supervisor Bishop commented that what was before the Board is the land use permit and the open space and the transportation aspect, and that it was appropriate to determine whether or not they are truly mitigation. Supervisor Powers requested a letter with a commitment from Browning Ferris Industries to this County about what will happen if the rates that the Board reduces are implemented and what they will do and he requested one week to determine how the land use permit provisions relate to the franchise agreement . Supervisor Smith moved that the staff be authorized to draft documents to join the Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority. The vote on the motion was unanimous . Supervisor Powers advised that without objection the matter would be continued for one week and he advised that the franchise was to be back with proposed clerical changes and for consideration of possible Board changes . Supervisor Torlakson expressed his concerns about changing the land use permit . Supervisor DeSaulnier requested staff to prepared some alternatives for Board consideration. IT IS BY THE BOARD ORDERED that the report from the Director, Growth Management and Economic Development Agency, to consider tipping fees (their amount and levels) and other landfill related actions is CONTINUED to October 11, 1994 at 2 P.M. ; and staff is AUTHORIZED to draft documentation to join the Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority; and IT IS BY THE BOARD ORDERED that the hearing on the recommendation of the Contra Costa County Planning Commission on the request of the Keller Canyon Landfill Company (applicant and owner) for approval of Amendment 1 to Land Use Permit 2020-89 which regulates Keller Canyon Landfill is CONTINUED to October 11, 1994 at 2 P.M. ; and staff is REQUESTED to respond to Board concerns raised at this meeting. cc : GMEDA County Counsel Community Development t hereby certify that this Is a true and correct copy of Browning Ferris Industries an action taken and entered on the minutes of the Board of Supervb #W date dro Bawn. ATTESTED: 4 1 G 9 q PHIL SATGtELOP,Clark of the Board 8u and Adminldrdpr v By - --9-1-A. . .DsauN COUNTY COUNSEL'S 'OFFICE CONTRA COSTA COUNTY MARTINEZ, CALIFORNIA Date: October 4, 1994 To: Board of Supervisors From: Victor J. WestmanCounty Counsel By: Silvano B. Marchesi, Ass't County Counseln Re: Keller Canyon Landfill, Proposed Land Use Permit Amendment The Board received the letter of 26 September 1994 from Randall D. Morrison, representing Valley Waste Management. This office and Community Development Department staff have reviewed the letter and provide the Board with this joint response. Mr. Morrison's letter makes five points, as follows: 1. Contrary to the Staff Report, the Keller EIR identifies transportation (roadway) impacts to be mitigated through County fees. RESPONSE: a) None of the transportation-related impacts identified in the Draft EIR proposed mitigation measures that resulted in Condition 35.1 (Transportation Impact Fee). The attached table shows that each mitigation measure identified in the Draft EIR (#1-9) resulted in one or more conditions of approval other than 35.1. b) Also, Conditions 35.1 and 35.2 were not prepared until one month after the Final EIR was certified by the Board. Those conditions were not approved by the Board until five months after the Final EIR was certified. c) When the Board approved the Keller Land Use Permit, it made the required CEQA findings, addressing each impact and mitigation measure identified in the Final EIR. Each finding also tracked which condition of approval was being imposed to implement those mitigation measures. None of the Board's findings mentioned Conditions 35.1 or 35.2 as implementing any mitigation measures listed in the Final EIR. Board of Supervisors October 4, 1994 Page 2 2. The EIR identifies open-space impacts and secondary community impacts. These impacts "can be mitigated through general fees like the open-space fee and host fee." RESPONSE: a) Again, the attached table demonstrates that each of the impacts and mitigation measures cited by Mr. Morrison resulted in a different condition of approval (#10-19). b) Even if a certain EIR-related impact CAN be mitigated by a fee such as the open-space fee or host mitigation fee, that does not mean that such fees were, in fact, imposed for that purpose. c) Mr. Morrison quotes a passage (p. 6 of his letter) of the Draft EIR (p. 3- 288) that was superseded in the Final EIR. Information received after the Draft EIR was circulated eliminated potential increased cancer cases as an influence to depress property values. (Final EIR, p. 1-3) d) Mr. Morrison asserts that you address impacts that the EIR says are unavoidable by imposing the subject fees. Actually, CEQA authorizes approving a project with significant impacts that cannot be mitigated. Pursuant to that authority, the Board made a finding that those impacts are unavoidable, and adopted a statement of overriding considerations. 3. Rescinding Conditions 31.9 ("County Resource Recovery Management Program") and 35.4 ("Resource Recovery Program Fee") will significantly reduce Keller Canyon Landfill Company's ("KCLC") obligation to fund the County's program. Without such assurance, there may be an effect on the landfill's operation. RESPONSE: The County retains the power to ensure the adequacy of funding for its program, in an amount it deems appropriate. The program does not depend on a particular tipping fee component. For further explanation, please see the attached memo from Charles Zahn to this office. Board of Supervisors October 4, 1994 Page 3 4. The net result of fee changes will be elimination or severe reduction in mitigation measures for KCL's environmental impacts. RESPONSE: All of the significant avoidable impacts identified in the Final EIR are mitigated by measures and conditions other than these two fees. 5. The Common Sense Exemption is improper, because there is a probability that reducing these fees will cause a significant environmental effect--reduce the mitigation measures for real impacts identified in the EIR. RESPONSE: As stated earlier, all the mitigation measures identified in the EIR resulted in conditions of approval other than conditions 35.1 and 35.2. None of the mitigation measures recommended the fees imposed in those two conditions. Thus, the proposed deletion of these two conditions will not affect the mitigation of any of the identified significant impacts. However, the exemption (State CEQA Guidelines, § 15061(b)(3)) may be challenged. It is applicable "[w]here it can be seen with certainty that there is no possibility that the activity in question may have a significant effect on the environment...." Several cases have construed this exemption narrowly. Thus, we cannot assure the Board with certainty that the exemption will be upheld if it is challenged in court. On the other hand, staff has not ascertained any potential environmental impact that possibly could result from the proposed amendment to the Keller LUP. In staffs view, Mr. Morrison has not suggested any plausible impact that could result from the amendment. Staff concludes that at this point it would be pure speculation to attempt to analyze any potential impacts. cc: Phil Batchelor, County Administrator Val Alexeeff, Dir., GMEDA Harvey E. Bragdon, Director, Community Development Department Attn: Charles Zahn, Assistant Director KELLER CANYON CERA MITIGATION MEASURES Impact Mitigation Measures Condition 1 . Effects on Highway 1 . a. Limit trips from 1 . Condition 29.9, 8.1 4 (p. 3-186): Change KCL to Transfer current traffic patterns Stations 6:30-8:30 & generate new traffic a.m. This reduces volumes, esp. truck impact to insignificant. traffic b. Use TS, and prohibit self-haul. c. Implement hwy. projects to widen & improve Hwy 4. (p. 3- 187) 2. Cause damage & 2. Option 1 : a. 2. Condition 29.5, wear. to pavements on Require applicant to 29.7. Maintenance fee Bailey Road (p. 3-188). contribute to (Option 2) has not improvements fee to been established. upgrade & improve pavement sections on roads impacted by transfer truck traffic to KCLC. b. Require applicant to contribute to maintenance fee. Option 2: Have surcharge on each truck trip to be applied toward future maintenance of these roads. (p. 3-189) 3. Site Access: 3. Design proper sight 3. Condition 29.4 Location & design of distance & intersection access road at entrance. This intersection on Bailey would reduce impact Rd. is critical design to insignificance (p. 3- element. (p. 3-190) 190). KELLER CANYON CEOA MITIGATION MEASURES Impact Mitigation Measures Condition 4. Traffic Safety on 4. Site access 4. Condition 29.4, Bailey Road: improvements 29.5 Additional traffic to proposed by appl., plus KCLC may result in marked left-turn add'l accidents, entrance. Also, traffic especially in fog (p. 3- signal. (p. 3-193) 190-193). 5. Traffic Capacity & 5. Roadway 5. Condition 29.8. Congestion: Traffic improvements at Improvement dist. or would increase V/C freeway ramps. area of benefit not yet ratios, & may add to Reconstruct inter- established. capacity impacts on change. App. to access roads in participate with others vicinity. (p. 3-193) in funding needed improvements pro rata. (p. 3-196) 6. Safety of 6. Implement bike & 6. Condition 29.10. Pedestrians & pedestrian path system Bicycle lane-pedestrian Bicyclists: Increased on roads to site. (p. 3- path installed. traffic hazards on 196) Bailey Rd. (p. 3-196) 7. Traffic Effects on 7. Use transfer 7. Condition 8.1, 9.1, Adjacent Land Use: stations, eliminate pub. 22.1, Development & commercial & access to KCLC, Improvements Plan residential visual/noise berms, developments along & control hours of truck west of Bailey Rd. (p. operation (p. 3-197) 3-197) 2 KELLER CANYON CEQA MITIGATION MEASURES Impact Mitigation Measures Condition 8. Costs of Rd. 8. App to pay pro 8. Condition 29.8 Improvements: Bailey rata. Pay all entrance Rd.: $1 .5 million; costs & Bailey n. of Bailey/SR4 intersec- entrance, plus tion: To be maintenance (p. 3- determined; Entrance: 198). $300,000 (p. 3-197- 198) 9. Construction- 9. None. Insignificant. 9. Condition: N/A related Traffic Impacts: Add'I traffic during construction (p. 3-198) Open-Space Impacts And Secondary Community Impacts 10. Traffic: See 10. See above 10. See above above impacts. mitigation measures. conditions. 11 . Visual: Alteration 11 . Manage grading, 11 . Condition 22 of Topography (p. 3- landscaping plans; 150) establish park, plant trees (p. 3-1158-159) 12. Visual: Views 12. Screen auxiliary 12. Condition 22 from Bailey Road (p. 3- areas, enhance entry, 163) design admin. bldgs. (p. 3-163) 13. Visual: Water 13. Construct berms 13. Condition 22.12 tanks (p. 3-164) around all water tanks, plant grasses. (p. 3- 164) 14. Visual: Light and 14. Directional lighting 14. Condition 22.14 glare (p. 3-164) on access road (p. 3- 3 KELLER CANYON CEQA MITIGATION MEASURES Iml2act Mitigation Measures Condition 164) 15. Visual: Litter 15. Litter control plan, 15. Condition 25 inc. debris fences, litter patrols, perimeter berms, daily cover. (p. 3-165) 16. Noise: Operations 16. Limit hours of 16. Condition 21 & Site Preparation (p. construction/operation, 3-245) berm (p. 247) 17. Noise: Traffic (p. 17. Noise suppressors 17. Condition 21 .6, 3-247) on transfer trucks (p. 21 .7 3-248) 18. Odor (p. 3-132) 18. Small working 18. Condition 20.2, face; quickly cover 20.3, 20.4 sludge; enclose leachate collection system; gas collection & flare system. (p. 3- 132) 19. Cancellation of 19. Provide for quality 19. Condition 23.2 Williamson Act grazing for about contract (p. 3-29) same number of cattle. Require range management plan. (p. 3-29) 4 CONTRA COSTA COUNTY COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT DATE: October 4, 1994 TO: Victor J. Westman, County Counsel Attn: Silvano Marchesi, Assistant County Counsel FROM: Harvey E. Bragdon, Director of Community Development By: Charles A. Zahn, Assistant Director C:;�_Z SUBJECT: PROPOSED CHANGES TO RESOURCE RECOVERY PROGRAM CONDITIONS IN AMENDMENT 1 TO LAND USE PERMIT 2020-89 FOR THE KELLER CANYON LANDFILL The following comments on the financial implications of Amendment 1's proposed changes to the resource recovery provisions of Land Use Permit 2020-89 are provided in accordance with our discussion yesterday. The Crosby, Haefy, Roach, and May letter of September 26, 1994 (for Valley Waste Management) claims that: "Rescinding Conditions 31.9 and 35.4 will significantly Reduce Keller Canyon's Obligation to Fund the County Resource Recovery Management Program." The letter goes on to imply that Condition 31.9 obligates the Keller Canyon Landfill to support the entire County Resource Recovery Program. Both Conditions pre-date the preparation and adoption of the 1993 County Integrated Waste Management Plan. Their terms could neither predict the requirements of the plan nor foresee how it would be financed. Virtually the same condition was put in the 1987 Land Use Permit for the Acme Transfer Station. There was an expectation that the costs of the program --capped at$100,000 annually - - would be spread among other facilities as they came on line. It is noted the waste facilities approved by the County all include Land Use Permit conditions l that obligate the permittees to cooperate with the County to provide resource recovery services to their respective service areas. AB 939, mandating waste reduction goals and calling for a new plan for reaching the goals went into effect in January, 1990. A central idea of AB 939 is that individual cities and counties (for unincorporated areas) should be primarily responsible for meeting the goals. It wasn't until mid 1993 that the new Integrated Waste Management Plan was completed. Amendment 1 would help provide for the maintenance and implementation of the Integrated Waste Management Plan by adding Condition 31.10, specifically authorizing the Board of Supervisors to impose a tonnage surcharge for AB 939 program purposes. The County is not limited to moneys from Condition 3 1.10 to finance resource recovery. If, for example, the geographic base for the provision of the County's resource recovery program does not correspond to the service area of the landfill, the County can use collection franchise area administrative fees to obtain funding. The County, then, can anticipate that the changes to resource recovery program funding in Amendment 1 will not be deleterious to the program. CAZ:rw RCZ3:KCLAmend.np - Page 2 - BRUEN & GORDON A PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION 1990 NORTH CALIFORNIA BOULEVARD SUITE 608 WALNUT CREEK.CALIFORNIA 94596 (510)295-3131 FAX(510)295-3132 October 4, 1994 The Hon. Thomas Powers, Chairman and Members of the Board of Supervisors County of Contra Costa 651 Pine Street Martinez, California 94553 Re: Item H.4; Recommendation of the County Planning Commission for Approval of Amendment 1 to Land Use Permit 2020-89 Dear Chairman Powers and Members of the Board: We are writing you on behalf of the Keller Canyon Landfill Company ( "KCLC", the owner/operator of the Keller Canyon Landfill) to briefly address the comments dated Sptember 26, 1994 submitted to your Board by counsel for Valley Waste Management. By and large, the comments are unfounded legal assertions and claims made on behalf of a competitor of the Keller Canyon Landfill. The authors of the letter can point to no specific examples either in the Keller Canyon Landfill Environmental Impact Report ("the EIR") or the Keller Canyon Landfill Conditions of Approval ("the COA") wherein mitigation fees to be reduced or eliminated under the requested Amendment 1 were established to mitigate an impact identified in the EIR. Instead, the letter refers to what the County "may" have done or "could" have done, without any substantiation for the claims. The Valley Waste Management letter claims that these mitigation fees were imposed to mitigate certain impacts , such as roadway/traffic impacts, as well as impacts which could not be mitigated to a level of insignificance. In fact, the record more than amply demonstrates that the fees established in the COA (see, e.g. , COA 35. 1, 35.2) were not established to mitigate impacts identifed in the EIR, but were imposed as additional conditions by the Board of Supervisors. For example, there are very specific conditions in COA 29 which implement the mitigation measures identifed in the EIR (and which are referenced in the Valley Waste Management letter) for traffic and roadway impacts. In addition, for those impacts (i.e. , visual impacts) that could not be fully mitigated, the Board adopted a Statement of The Hon. Tom Powers and Members of the Board of Supervisors October 4, 1994 Page 2 Overriding Considerations as required by CEQA. These fees were not adopted as part of, or in connection with, the Statement of Overriding Considerations. As the Board of Supervisors has previously noted, there is substantial competition within Contra Costa County for the use of solid waste transfer and disposal facilities. The proposed Amendment No. 1 to Use Permit 2020-89 simply recognizes this fact. We urge you to approve the Staff recommendation. Very truly yours, Scott W. Gordon SWG:cg NORRIS r4A NORRIS RICHARD E.NORRIS HILLTOP OFFICIE. PARK m.jr-rFP9Y MICKLAS DOUGLAS C.STRAUS 2460 GLUME DRIVE. SUITE ZOO ISIOj 242.VOO CY 9PST9*1N COLIN J.COVFVf MCB:MOND, CAXX70V2TZA 04806-4061 .JOSHUA G.GENSER rOWAPQ L.SHAFFER (5101422-9.992 DAWO S.SMITH rahAADN M.IVERStN JUSTI 14 0.SCHWARTZ NOEL M.CAUGHMAN J.CRICK DIMALANTA FACSIMILE COVER SKEET Date: 0 To* omPa_& —&oe,w -� J&r\ Enclosure: IL4a From: Shelly Hartman, ext. 120, ass'Listant, to Richard Norris and Justin Schwartz Total Number of Pages (including this cover page) Message: Should you have any problems receiving this transmission, please contact Shelly Hartman at 510-222-2100, extension 120. Thank you. WARNING: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from . disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return this original message to us at the above address via the- US. Postal Service. Thank you. NORRIS !:� NORRIS RICHARD E.NORRIS HILLTOP OFFICE PARKM.JtrlT[LEPHONE DOUGLAS MTRAUS 9260 BLUME DRIVE, SUITE 200 16101 Z22•$100 DOUG LA$ C•$TRAUS Cr EPSTEIN COU N J•COFREY RIczxoNn, CAxj"RNL& 9"o6-wei JOSMuA G.CENSER FACSIMILE EDWARD 6.SHAFFER DAVID S.SMITH 15101 22 •5992 SHARON M.IVERSEN JUSTIN D.5CHwART2 NOEL M.CAUGMMAN J.ERICK 01MALANTA October 4, 1994 The Honorable Tom Powers, Chair BY FACSIMILE CONTRA COSTA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS 510-646-1059 100 - 37th Street, Room 270 Richmond, CA 94805 Members of the Board of Supervisors 510-646-1059 CONTRA COSTA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS 651 Pine Street Martinez, CA 94553 Dear Mr. Powers and Members of the Board: This letter is in response to Thomas Bruen's letter to you dated October 3 , 1994. In that letter, Mr. Bruen, on behalf of his clients, BFI, Keller Canyon Landfill and Acme (hereinafter referred to jointly as BFI) , incorrectly claims that Solano County has acted to lower landfill business license fees in Solano County. while the matter is currently being considered, no such action has been taken by Solano County. BFI goes on for the better part of three pages arguing the fine points of whether the fees which Potrero Hills Landfill collects are "State Fees" or "Proprietary Fees. " In any event, BFI does not deny that the fees are a part of the cost to Potrero Hills Landfill of doing business and are included in the $41.50 rate. Potrero Hills has advocated lower government fees in Solano County. But the government fees at issue in Solano County are not mitigation promised to local communities in order to get permits approved when Potrero Hills was opened. However, the fees that are at issue in Contra Costa are, for the most part, the money that was promised to Keller Canyon Landfill 's neighbors to mitigate the development of the landfill. It is a plain fact that if BFI had not promised to pay all of the mitigation fees that are currently in effect, Keller Canyon Landfill would not have been approved. The overarching theme of BFI's desperate attempts to secure a waste stream by government intervention has been BFI's breach of the trust of the community in which it has chosen to do business. It is interesting that Mr. Bruen does not deny the specific charges against BFI included in my letter of September 22, 1994, which are: VOW0059011\109171 Mr. Tom Powers and Members of the Board October 4, 1994 Page 2 1. BFI tried and failed to use closure litigation at Acme as a club to coerce Contra Costa County to direct waste to HFI. 2. BFI has tried to blame the Contra Costa Board of Supervisors for the high cost of disposal at BFI when the fact is that BFI agreed to all of the fees and costs which go into the BFI rate - and charged Contra Costa rate payers a risk premium on top of the costs. 3 . BFI advocates have made false statements regarding Potrero Hills , environmental record, its permitted life, and the cost of direct haul of waste to Potrero Hills Landfill in order to attempt to gain an unfair competitive advantage. 4. Acme 'paid Potrero Hills Landfill over $1, 000, 000. 00 in damages per an award by a retired Supreme Court justice in an arbitration, for having directed waste to more expensive landfills (than Potrero Hills) notwithstanding a contractual obligation on the part of Acme to direct waste to Potrero Hills. BFI cannot and does not deny the specific facts. Rather they argue that there will be no funds to mitigate the impacts of Keller Canyon Landfill if it does not receive waste. The BFI position begs the question: if Keller Canyon Landfill ceases to receive waste, would there be impacts to mitigate? Of course, the flow of waste to Keller canyon Landfill and the flow of mitigation dollars from Keller Canyon Landfill will balance out. Potrero Hills Landfill is the best and the least cost alternative to Contra Costa County rate payers for disposal of waste, and will be regardless of the amount of fees charged by Contra Costa County. very truly yours, (2z'- NORRIS & NO BY RICHARD E. NORRIS (Colin Coffey for Richard Norris) REN:slh cc: Richard Granzella, by delivery Dennis Varni, by delivery Caesar Nuti, by delivery Joe Della 2oppa, by devliery Thomas Bruen, 510-295-3132 \00W005901>>t09171 4GENDA DATE _ IC) -lzI ' ay- ITEM N0, BACKGROUND NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME AGENDA PACKET COMPILED INFORMATION FOR THIS ITEM PREVIOUSLY FURNISHED ORAL REPORT TO BE GIVEN AT BOARD MEETING ERROR IN NUMBERING AGENDA ITEM .DELETED DOCUMENTS ON FILE WITH CLERK S- Text of item H. 3 and H.4 from October 4, 1994 Supervisor Powers : Okay, we' ll go to the afternoon hearings . Item H. 3 and I guess we can take H.4 together. Val Alexeeff : Good afternoon. We have a requested holdover from the previous week today at this time and there was some testimony that was provided last week and the Board moved to hold the matter over, to keep the hearing open and to bring the matter up again this week. The items before you are essentially in two bites . One is the issue of the use permit which was brought up in an effort to reduce fees and handle some other issues . And secondly, on the various issues related to the franchise, a number of matters that the Board had requested to be brought back last week that are outlined in the staff report . There are some additional studies and some additional analyses here for the Board' s consideration and so I' ll stop with that and be happy to answer any questions . Supervisor Powers : Questions? Supervisor Smith: I just asked Chuck Zahn off the record. I just want to comment on the record. Keller started accepting waste on 5/7/92, is that correct? Val Alexeeff : That date sounds right, yeah. Supervisor Smith: Is that right? Scott . Nobody knows . Tom I mean okay thanks . Supervisor Bishop: I believe 5/7/92 they started accepting waste? Val Alexeeff : That' s correct . Is there a disagreement over that? Supervisor Smith: Not that I know of . I wasn' t there. Supervisor Bishop: Nor was I . Supervisor Powers : Okay, you know I looked over this report and the one report that refers to let me see if I can find it because there' s a lot of reports here . It' s a report dated September 22nd and it' s on the land use permit and I you know there' s a whole host of issues that are raised in this that I didn' t realize that the Board requested to be discussed at the Planning Commission. As I recall it, we referred two items to the Planning Commission, one was the fees related to agriculture and transportation and the other one was the issue of the rate regulation process, having a lid and a floor, yet there are a whole bunch of other conditions in the land use permit that are being modified and or eliminated and they seem to have a substantial amount of impact even though they' re referred to in some places as housekeeping and I for instance well I could say a lot of for instances because there are a whole bunch of them. And where they contract with the County for the mitigation, geotechnical services is now being shifted to an independent, supposedly independent contractor paid for by the landfill operator and eliminating a couple of surcharges that the Board did not discuss . Cost of the resource management program. And it' s being changed to a fixed fee . Tonnage charge . A portion and I can' t quite understand how it' s being dealt with and elimination of the tonnage fee referred to and adding a section in 31 . 10 tonnage fee or other means of funding and I'm not quite understanding that . So, I'm just wondering where, what Board Orders those other issues were derived from or just how did they get before the Planning Commission without the Board directing that they be done? And I mean all of those besides the issue of rate setting floor and ceiling and the two fees . Wherein can you say that those issues got referred to the County 'Planning 1 ..0 y Commission by this Board? Chuck Zahn: Mr. Chairman, members of this Board, the particular items related to the financing, by and large related to the financing of programs to the Keller Land Use Permit, subject of what kind of fees were being imposed on Keller and what could one do with those fees . What did one have the latitude to do with those fees under the land use permit had been discussed at several meetings including the joint committee' s meetings . The intent as is indicated in the staff report is to enable the Board to have the latitude or the ability to deal with these fees in terms of their amount relative to other fees and in instruments other than the land use permit where they' re locked in. The fees that relate to the resource recovery program for example, there were two separate fees in the original land use permit . Those have basically now been melded into one condition and the condition that enables the Board to consider the level of these fees with other fees in setting them under the cap for fees that' s being discussed. The fees dealing with the compliance and mitigation monitoring program where again there were two and now we' re proposing one, the level of those fees was again discussed at the ad hoc committee meetings . It' s been part of the discussion of fees that' s been before the Board. Supervisor Powers : Well, I surely agree that some of these conditions are linked to fees but we discussed very specifically issues that related to fees that we referred to the Planning Commission and secondly, and so I'm surprised that other fees were referred at least without some discussion by the Board and secondly, the some of these conditions do not relate to fees . They relate to the process by which mitigation monitoring is carried out, the process by which the geotechnical services are going to be carried out, the discussion of hauling of vehicles, waste hauling vehicles and the extent allowed by law that that should be done. So, they' re well beyond some of the things that I recall being discussed and I'm just wondering whether or not there' s some Board Order that I missed that had those in because as I recall, there were a very specific set of Board Orders referring matters to the Planning Commission. What I'm gathering is that someone took license and to do that, those other things and I'm just wondering how that got carried out . Val Alexeeff : The applicant for the use permit amendment was BFI . They also had a role because they actually made formal application to amend the use permit . Supervisor Powers : I see . Okay, so it was their application that desired these to be . . . Supervisor Bishop: I have a couple of questions . At this juncture, we have before us the land use permit and what is the other item that we are looking at? The franchise . . Val Alexeeff : Okay, well what the Board did was instruct staff to come back with a series of information items the JPA item, the comparison of the landfill proposals that the three contenders, the three currently contenders have made . I believe Supervisor Bishop that you wanted some additional information on the current balances in the various mitigation accounts and I think that' s what we have before you. You also wanted the tonnages in different parts of the County. Supervisor Bishop: You know I'm sure that before I arrived on this Board, the determination of where to site a landfill created all kinds of chaos and headaches on the part of the prior Board, but I can tell you this is an issue that it' s like sinking in quicksand, that the more we try to get out of it, the deeper we sink and it is an extremely complex issue but sometimes I think we really need to cut through it and say what are we really trying to achieve and I think if we would all just be real 2 i straightforward about what the questions are that we have and what are the answers that we require, I think we need to make a decision and get on with the business of this County. I understood you to say Supervisor Powers that there was something here about conditions in the land use permit, that certain things are being deleted and certain things are being added. It would help me if after I finish speaking you could give me some specifics . I have a great deal of concern one, and this is a concern that goes back before I ever took office and that was concern with fees that we are imposing on a landfill, especially as they relate toward to mitigation fees to open space and transportation improvements. This is not a new you know position that I'm taking. It is something that I have taken one of the very first things that I was extremely concerned about that those fees added on the cost of garbage disposal or solid waste disposal and it has always been my objective to get those fees down and when I go back historically as sometimes we are wont to do, and I recall when there was no option to take garbage out of the County. Excuse me for calling it garbage instead of solid waste but before we were taking garbage waste and we had no option to it out of the County, I can remember conversations with Mr. Norris in the back and I can remember conversations with Waste Management and I can remember conversations from an assortment of people about how outrageous those fees were, that there was no nexus between because at that time, everyone was going to have to pay those fees and it made the overall cost of disposal extremely high, so there were a lot of people joining with me and being concerned . . . . . . . .they' re dealing with Eastin fund, how some of those costs are fixed, that we have no discretion over but I'm also getting mixed . . .as to how other Counties are dealing with this . It helps me to understand how other Counties are dealing with this and quite frankly, it was really distressing to me to be here on last Tuesday morning and up until that time receiving one correspondence from Mr. Bruen' s office to the effect that in Solano County, they are considering a reduction of fees and having a counter opposition to that saying that is not true, they are not considering that, it is not on the calendar and that $41 . 50 won' t go up and it won' t go down no matter what they do and then getting another letter after I'm here at the Board at 9 : 30 in the morning from Mr. Norris saying yes, it is true . It' s not that complex. We either have to make an effort on our part to get the fees down to bring the transportation and open space under out from under a land use permit and incorporate it and handle it at this Board so that we don' t have to go back to the Planning Commission and have it governed by a land use permit . To me that was one of the objectives that we were trying to accomplish and that we could have some reasonable rate setting or fee setting here at the Board and frankly, again I think when we end up with a $12 and something, we haven' t gone far enough but I'm looking here to me the important documents that are simple that are not complex, are the documents that were provided to us the last time on September 27th and we just look at this and look at what the recommendation at the Planning Commission made a recommendation and at this point, I'm not sure that they did make a recommendation, but I think we need to deal with this issue.. Supervisor Powers : Thank you for those comments . I think you missed one big issue . First of all, what I'm referring to is page 8, 9, 12, 13 and 14 of a staff report dated September 22nd by Harvey Bragdon and Charles Zahn to the Board of Supervisors . Supervisor Bishop: Okay, could you give me those pages again 8 . . Supervisor Powers : Why don' t you write them down and look at them later, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 of the staff report dated September 22nd. Okay, now let me say one thing you forgot and that is getting the rates down. Now you talked about fees and I think we acted on that . And we did reduce the fees substantially on two occasions . . 80 on one and x number of dollars to get it 3 s' down to $12 . 24 on the other and I thought when we did that, along with our July action eliminating the floor on the rates, that we would get some rate relief from the ACME/BFI corporation. I have here in my possession and October 3rd dated ticket from the ACME landfill corporation reflecting and I don' t know who' s it is but the words whose went through here went out but it was a garbage truck carrying 31, 900 pounds gross weight of I guess the TARE weight is about 28, 000 pounds and the most important thing is the rate that' s being charged. $76 . 88 . It does not reflect the fee decrease that we enacted a couple three weeks ago. It does reflect an . 80 reduction that we did oh a couple of months ago I believe. But it does not reflect the July reduction in rates . So, the one thing we don' t have to give up at this point is a private corporation charging too much for municipal waste and the $62 a ton being charged today is substantially higher than we were being told when we reduced the rates to 39 supposedly, well we didn' t reduce them, we let them float and they haven' t floated anywhere and frankly, that disturbs me and it disturbs me that several conditions that are suggested by the operator when they filed the land use permit modification are in their favor and not in the public' s favor and it reduces fees and inspection programs even further and that' s why I'm concerned about it, so I think we can go and ask our questions . I'd appreciate being able to take testimony from individuals who are here to testify and then we can argue about what we' re here about and make some decision. Supervisor Bishop: Could I ask you a question about the piece of paper you have . Where did that come from and . . . Supervisor Powers : I got it on my fax machine and it came from Garaventa Enterprises . So, they didn' t scratch out all the. . . Supervisor Bishop: Could we have a copy, could each of us have a copy of that . Supervisor Torlakson: So, basically you' re saying that the tipping charge is still at $77 . It hasn' t gone down at all . And that' s a serious concern. I'm glad that you've raised that publicly because we want to see the rates go down and we need to do some more things here to discuss the fees and so forth but there' s the ability and been so for months to have the fees drop at the tipping fee point at the transfer station. It hasn' t happened. And I think we need to register our collective concern about that . Supervisor Powers : Okay, were there any other comments by staff before we take public testimony. Val Alexeeff : Not at this time . Supervisor Powers : Very good. Vic Westman: Mr. Chairman, could I mention that we provided you with a memorandum that addressed some of the concerns of Mr. Morrison I believe that' s his name' s letter which was provided to me at the time of the hearing last week. We were not asked to respond to those but after looking at his letter during the week, we decided to respond and that' s why you' re now receiving our comments . Thank you. Supervisor Powers : And that' s this October 4th memo from you to the Board. Victor Westman: Yes, I just want to note for the record that it' s filed and it had not been requested but after reviewing Mr. Morrison' s letter after the meeting, we decided that we should file at least some sort of response for the record. Thank you. Supervisor Powers : Let me ask all of the staff collectively and those who represent BFI or ACME or anybody related thereto. Has 4 there been a letter or written document sent to this County which reflects conditions upon which the rates, the proprietary rates will be reduced? Has anyone in staff first of all received such correspondence. Mr. Bruen, I' ll ask you when you come up. I'm searching for. I understood the day that the representation orally was made that $39 was the rate that there had been some written document circulating in the Board Room and it hasn' t turned up yet and I wanted to know if maybe you can answer that now. Tom Bruen: Well, if I'm not mistaken, I believe we did provide the Board with a letter I think two or three hearings back. We've made proposals to the Central Contra Costa Solid Authority and to the BFI Franchises which would result in the rate, the combined rate for the transfer station and the landfill at Keller Canyon being reduced to $39 . 00 a ton in exchange for 17 months wastestream commitment . And it' s our understanding, the Solid Waste Authority is considering that proposal on its October 13th agenda. Supervisor Powers : Did you submit anything to us reflecting that you would reduce your rates if we reduced the fees . I mean irrespective of conditions for how long or whatever. Tom Bruen: Not in so many words, no. I believe we submitted a proposal to this Board soliciting a wastestream agreement from the County for the unincorporated area. Supervisor Powers : For the same period of time? Tom Bruen: For that same period of time. Similar to what we've indicated other jurisdictions we'd be willing to enter into. And we have had discussions with a number of City Managers in the County and it' s our understanding that a number of jurisdictions are going to be considering that proposal within the next several weeks . Supervisor Powers : So, if in fact, we did not enter into an agreement with you to for the period of time that you've suggested, that therefore the rate would not be reduced to $39 . 00 . For instance, if we were to franchise any of the unincorporated area haulers that would come to you and we did not direct them or they did not wish to enter into an agreement that was on the terms and conditions that you requested, that you would not reduce the rate to $39 . 00 . Tom Bruen: Well, I think it' s important to note first of all that we' re talking about rates that are going to be charged at the permanent transfer station. We hope that will start operation in October. It' s my understanding that the gate rate at the permanent transfer station for uncommitted waste will be substantially less than the current total of the proprietary rates for the interim station and Keller Canyon. I don' t think that rates been set yet . It will be more than $39 . 00 a ton. Somewhere in the $40 to $50 a ton range is my understanding. And that would go into effect when the permanent transfer station opens its doors . Supervisor Powers: Okay, now is it accurate that the $39 . 00 rate would go that was predicated on all the unincorporated waste going to ACME/Keller. Tom Bruen: Well, not all of the unincorporated waste because some of the County' s wastestream permits unincorporated area has already been committed to the West County Transfer Station and you know we need to hear back from the County as to what kind of commitment if any the County wanted to make. We've made proposals to individual cities that weren' t conditioned on other cities also committing their wastestream so, I think at this point, we' re waiting to hear back from the Board. 5 Supervisor Powers : Thank you very much. Okay, we have Frank Aiello and Lance Dow to speak and whatever order. You guys talk a lot together so whatever order: Frank Aiello: Good afternoon. I think we've just had a confirmation that there was a rate proposal before this Board and , again I will reiterate as I did last week that this Board still rate regulates Keller Canyon under conditions 12 . 1 through 12 . 6 of the land use permit . And along with those conditions, full financial disclosure has to be made along with the rate proposal . So, I would assume that any rate proposal that was made to this Board did have full financial disclosure. Otherwise that was a clear violation of the land use permit that was issued. Was there any financial disclosure to this Board that anybody is aware of . Was there any audit papers submitted. Supervisor Powers : We' ll get some answers . Frank Aiello: I know. Nice snicker over there Tom. Supervisor Powers : We could try to get answers for you Frank at the conclusion of your testimony. Frank Aiello: I wanted to comment briefly. Supervisor DeSaulnier made a comment last week that Mr. Dow and myself will be happy if this landfill were to shut down. I think that about ten years ago, Citizens United started up and Mr. Torlakson was involved in that . Citizens United wanted no landfills in East County. With Keller sure we wanted it shut down and sure we wanted and Concord wanted it shut down. But we have to look at the realistics of the situation. Keller is there and we have to deal with it and the homeowners next to it have to deal with it and the realistic problem that we have is that we' re not getting fair and equitable treatment from the landfill operator. And I think I can point to a few things that have happened recently. Recently Bailey Road had a collapse I think most of you all know this morning. There' s no alternative route to the landfill . Trucks are being routed through Bay Point . Willow Pass Road down Railroad Avenue through the City of Pittsburg, down Leland Avenue through all residential neighborhoods up to the landfill . Now this is not the firs time. We had a gas explosion. We had a fire at Keller Canyon Landfill property. This is the fourth time. How can we alleviate the problem if there is no alternative route . We suggest that there be an alternative route from the south, coming through the City of Concord. Now if we do that, that transportation fund has to stay intact because there are going to be impacts to Bailey Road coming from the other way and that road must be improved in its entirety to take the impact of those trucks coming from the other way. We do need an alternative route. At current time, one does not exist . And we have seen clearly over the past year that with four instances we do need one. I don' t think it would be as in Ms . Bishop' s statement she didn' t want to live next to a landfill . Well, I don' t think you' d want contaminated soils trucks passing through your front yard either. And that' s clearly what happened today. So, I think that has to be considered when you' re considering fees . I also think it has to be considered in a June 13th letter made by Mr. Westman to the Board that in order to reduce these fees, you will have to double tonnages at the landfill in order to maintain environmental control and Mr. Alexeeff made a statement in the paper, stating that the first thing to go at Keller should you reduce these fees would be environmental control and the cities of Bay Point and Pittsburg should be worried. I think that' s a very serious statement and we are very worried. We have just had an admission by County staff that environmental control is going to be sacrificed. Are we going to sacrifice human lives . I don' t want to see that happen and I think this Board knows what the right decision is . I think we need to leave those fees intact . The statute of limitations has expired. County staff told us that last week. This was not an 6 arrangement . This was a contract . This was a agreement by BFI with the County for doing business in Contra Costa County. It' s as simple as that . We have no obligation as citizens to help BFI compete in this county. We have no obligation. They made that commitment . They signed the dotted line. Nobody put "the gun to their head" and said sign this contract . They were willing to sign that because they got the landfill . Well, you got it now you got to live with what you signed with. Thank you. Supervisor Bishop: I actually have a question of staff . Mr. Alexeeff let me ask you a question. Instead of using the ACME transfer station you were to use the Pittsburg Transfer station if that were to be utilized. If there were a failure at Bailey Road such as we had this morning. Where, if those trucks going from Pittsburg to Solano County the most direct route would be what . Down Highway 4? Val Alexeeff : There are surface streets through the north side of Pittsburg that probably would bypass whatever the problem was . As long as Port Chicago is open, that would be an alternate route though it' s not a very good one. , Supervisor Bishop: So they would all, so that would be an alternate route that if we were utilizing solano or if pittsburg using the Pittsburg Transfer Station, that would happen is that correct . Val Alexeeff : Yeah or they would go up the opposite way up through Rio Vista. I guess it depends on what the problem is . But I think that it' s important I think from the testimony and just the circumstances to take a look at some kind of an alternate route structure for any transfer station landfill combination. I think that' s a worthwhile endeavor and it' s something I think we' ll take a look at anyway. Supervisor Powers : Okay, Lance Dow and I would like that letter. I never saw that letter that was referred to us from BFI . You haven' t got it okay. Lance Dow: Good afternoon Board. I think Miss Bishop is right . This isn' t a very complex issue. The issue that' s before us is the amendment and basically what we' re talking about is fees and I'm not real clear by what the County staff has presented if we' re still talking about area of origin. It' s not real clear but that also would be a very big issue but I' ll just address the fees right now and I think Mr. Aiello pretty much hit on it . We had a garbage conglomerate come here and promise to do all sorts of things and over the last three years, a lot of us, especially those that live next to the landfill have seen a lot of those promises go by the wayside. And the fact remains that the main promises that they made were the transportation and open space . They knew that those were things that certain Board members wanted and so to get their landfill they committed to that . And here we are again today talking about competition and really what we' re talking about is selling out your constituents . I think you have to understand what the County, the County as far as I can see has done enough. They've sited a garbage dump, they lowered the fees, they gave the Central County cities the lowest legal rate, so you've done your job. And I think it' s time for the cities if they want lower rates, if they want to use that garbage dump, then they' re going to pay the price to the host communities, to our infrastructure, etc. etc . Now if they don' t want to use the landfill then obviously they' re not obligated to do that but once again I just want to express to this Board that these were commitments that were made and that they should be kept . Thank you. Supervisor Powers : Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Dow for your testimony. I saw some yellow cards flipping around out there but I haven' t gotten any additional ones so unless there is 7 someone who stands up and wishes to speak at this time, then testimony will be closed on the issue . I do well I better wait till two Board members come back because I think it may require full participation of the Board particularly Mr. Torlakson in this because a lot of it has an impact on his . .maybe we can keep going till they get back. I know that they have gone upstairs for a moment Mark and Tom Torlakson to talk about a hospital issue and so that' s all I was told but they will be back. In the meantime, Jeff, guy on theleft . Supervisor Smith: I have a question. It' s alright it' s not that important . As we've been struggling through all of this with all the newspaper coverage and everything you can imagine, we've all gotten lobbied by constituents considerably and a question was asked of me by a friend the other day that I had a hard time answering and so I'm hoping you can answer it for me . 2 and a half years ago, the Keller Landfill began to accept waste and did so with a interim fee or interim charges . Under rate review by the Board of Supervisors with the analysis being that there was a big profit range, profit margin, fixed expenses and the fee being charged by the governmental entity were fixed as we talked about numerous times . In that 2 and a half years, my understanding is that basically everything has been charged about the same rate some moderate change . The question is now Keller is saying that they can operate at $39 . 00 for proprietary rate rather than $62 or $63 a ton so about a $22 or $23 a ton difference . But over the entire preceding 2 and a half years that $23 a ton been charged about 300, 000 tons a year so if you calculate that up that' s somewhere in the 17 million dollar range over that time period. Their question was how can the Board accept a lowering of the proprietary rate and still justify the previous action that they took. Because essentially when BFI came to this Board previously they were saying we need that 17 million dollars to be profit . Now, you' re saying you don' t need it . So the question they raised to me is isn' t the rate payer entitled to a refund of the $17 million dollars . How do I respond to this . Tom Bruen: Well, I think you would respond to your constituent by going back to the assumptions made by Deloitte Touche when the rate was originally set for the Keller Canyon Landfill . Deloitte Touche assumed that Keller Canyon would receive all of the County' s wastestream except that portion going to the West County Landfill . For starters, that didn' t happen. And as soon as you adjust that assumption and look at the impact on Keller Canyon' s profit picture by taking away all of the wastestream that Garaventa Enterprises essentially which went to Potrero Hills starting about two years ago roughly. That not only didn' t result in the landfill making the kind of profit that Deloitte Touche recommended this Board they make for all the risks attendant to siting a landfill, but also that rate didn' t take into account because we BFI haven' t gone into this Board for any rate increase since then the additional capital expenditures that have been poured into this landfill . The landfill in short has not made anywhere near the profits that Deloitte Touche originally recommended to the prior Board of Supervisors as being a fair rate of return for the size of their investment and the risk associated with that investment . How is it that BFI can offer a lower rate now, well I think if you adopt the assumption which is incorrect that BFI is going to be making a substantial profit at $39 a ton then maybe it' s a legitimate question but the fact of the matter is that BFI has spent about 100 million dollars on a fixed investment at Keller Canyon. It is not an investment that can be put on large tires and brought to another County where maybe rates are more favorable. And so they' re put in a position where they' re trying to recoup as much of that investment as possible or at least cover the interest on that investment . Under a $39 a ton proposal, BFI would not be able to recover its investment in that landfill unless thing dramatically change in the market in the future and perhaps larger volumes of waste become available maybe a prospect for waste from other 8 jurisdictions but they will be operating at a loss at $39 a ton when you consider their fixed investment in the landfill and it will be a considerable loss in the short term. Supervisor Smith: I think you've hit on the thing that is confusing to me or at least a conundrum because the previous environment was certainly less risky than the current environment because there was a presumption essentially of monopoly and that was changed by the Supreme Court ruling, had you know you point out that Deloitte Touche presumed that all the waste was going to Keller except for the West County. So, those two factors would argue that actually that the $77 ton rate, Keller should have made even more money because they should have been getting more waste, less risk. Now, we' re going to a more risky environment, Imean they were getting more waste less risk, now we' re going to have a more risky environment less waste and you' re saying that either you' re going to make much less profit or maybe even lose money on using the landfills . And I guess from the perspective of the County, I wonder which one it is . I mean if you' re going to go bankrupt at $39 a ton, that' s a problem. If on the other hand, the $77 a ton was much more than it cost to actually pay for overhead plus a reasonable profit, that' s a problem too. I just have a hard time explaining it to constituents who ask me how come I've been paying this extra money. Don' t I get a refund if we' re changing the rate. Tom Bruen: Well, I don' t think I agree with your analysis, Jeff . First of all because the landfill didn' t receive the volume it was anticipated it would receive, it didn' t receive the profit that it was anticipated it would receive. It' s not that we' re going to be making a smaller profit at $39 a ton. That number will not provide a profit when you consider the landfill' s fixed costs . It' s as simple as that . When I was in college, I had this economic textbook from a professor by the name of Paul Samuelson and it' s a little esoteric but businesses have twokinds of costs . Fixed costs and marginal costs . The marginal costs are the incremental costs associated with manufacturing that extra widget . So, what basically Samuelson said is if you' re a rational business person, and your widget costs . 10 to make and you can sell it for . 11, and that' s the market, you' ll make that widget even if you have a huge fixed investment that you' re not covering because you at least got one penny that you can put against that fixed investment . That' s essentially the position that BFI' s in. Because of the considerable capital investment in a modern up to date landfill, they have a huge fixed investment and if they can even cover the interest on that investment or a portion of the interest on that investment, it still makes sense for them not to close their doors . You referred to bankruptcy. Well, obviously BFI is a large company and it has a lot of other businesses . If this were a company with only that business, I'm sure the shareholders would be very disappointed. I 'm sure they' re disappointed as it is . You know, obviously that' s not a concern given the size of the company. Supervisor Smith: Well, actually you brought up the issue more eloquently than I can in terms of the comparison of marginal cost versus fixed cost . Of course, ultimately somewhere along the line you let' s use the example of making widgets . Somewhere you have to face up to the reality, even if you' re making a dollar a widget, you have 100 million dollars that you've already invested. Somebody has to end up paying off that 100 million dollars . And that' s the question I have is that if what you' re telling me is Keller Landfill Corporation is going to be losing money on the operation of the landfill but able to use the marginal income to survive temporarily what' s going to happen down the line . Tom Bruen: That' s not what I'm telling you. What I'm telling you is they've already spent the money. It' s they've already written the check 100 million dollars the landfill is there, they 9 can' t move it, so now they have to make economic decisions based upon this point forward. It' s reasonable for them so long as they cover their cost of operations and if they can recoup something over and above that to stay in business, I assure you they have a lot of people who are very much sophisticated in questions of finance and operations much more so than I that have to make these hard decisions. And they are hard decisions to make but really it' s a question of survival at this point . There' s no question in my mind that the company has very substantial assets . It' s a New York Stock Exchange Company. The second largest solid waste company in the world. So, it' s going to stay in business I can assure you of that no matter how bad their investment at Keller Canyon may turn out to be viewed as a single investment . Supervisor Powers : Okay, I'm going on this same lines Mr. Bruen. I did want to ask you a few questions . I do recall what happened not all the details but the essence of what happened when we set the rates . It was my understanding the rate you requested was around $95 a ton and that the consultant in evaluating the amount of tonnage at the time didn' t evaluate all the waste but about 250, 000 tons and came back to us and said you would make a profit at about $77 a ton including fees and that profit I think was estimated to be about 11 percent if I'm not — in any event, you accepted that interim rate at $77 as opposed to $95 indicating that there was some profit and then raised the questions about a couple of things I recall . One was the continued ability to monitor some of the environmental issues because there wasn' t enough revenues and two, to continue to extend the landfill' s permit and I think we' re talking about some of the regional and state permits . As I understand it you only have a Phase I permit from the Regional Water Quality Control Board and that you' ll need at some time in the future to go back and extend those environmental permits . I guess that set of circumstances raises further question about going down to $39 proprietary rate creates even further risk from the one you had indicated before at $77 and I'm just wondering how we feel assured particularly in view of some of those conditions in the land use permit being eliminated as to how we can explain to the residents particularly those in the environs of the landfill, how the environmental issues are going to be addressed at a losing proposition. Tom Bruen: Well, that' s the first time I've heard anyone express a concern about BFI' s ability to pay for mitigation measures . I can assure you that the parent company Browning Ferris Industries which is located in Houston Texas has provided this County with a parent company guarantee of all the Keller Canyon Landfill Company' s obligations to this County. I'm not aware of any relationship between the amount of money for "environmental mitigation" and what our proprietary rate is . It seems to me they' re unrelated. With respect to the Water Board and you indicated you thought you heard we had a Phase I permit . We have a waste discharge requirement from the Water Board. As with any landfill, those are renewable every five years . We have to give reports everytime we build a new unit or phase to the Water Board indicating how it' s going to be built and how it will comply with those regulations . We' re in full compliance with our water permit and all of our other permits and I don' t think anyone has suggested to us that the amount of our proprietary rates is somehow going to jeopardize our ability to comply with our permits . The parent company stands behind this operation like all of its operations and so far as I'm concerned, that really shouldn' t be an issue. Supervisor Powers : Well, one of the reasons that we in government here try to make sure we don' t know what' s happening back home and we don' t know whether you will institute what most businesses do when they start losing money is start cutting corners and that' s the problem. It isn' t so much that we don' t have faith in your corporation you know, we don' t own stock in 10 your corporation, and we don' t decide on who spends things but we do have the ability to protect the public and we have the duty to protect the public and so we don' t know what you' re going to do in terms of business practices and I'm always worried when you or anybody says they' re not making money, that they might try to find a way to cut corners, so despite the reputation of the company and I must say you get different opinions about that, we have the obligation to do those kind of things . Tom Bruen: All I can tell you is that Keller Canyon Landfill Company is closely regulated by a number of regulatory agencies . Bay Area Air Quality Management district, the Regional Water Quality Control Board, the California Department of Fish and Game, U. S. Army Corps of Engineers . And the landfill has an excellent compliance record. Anything that BFI would do at any site would affect its relationship with those agencies at all of its sites . No one has ever suggested that the company would cut any corners when it comes to environmental regulation. There' s no evidence of that and I don' t think that should be a concern. Supervisor Powers : I appreciate that but when as you did when you filed for the land use permit ask to have certain conditions changed including changing from the County geologist to a geologist hired by you and by changing the mitigation monitoring program outside of County to something paid directly by you, I and asking for other modifications that were put originally in this land use permit in the Board' s estimation and maybe those change for protecting the Community from the possible contingencies . Just like we have a fire station for fires . We felt it was important and so I begin to worry. That' s all I'm. saying. Appreciate your representation. Supervisor Bishop: I have a few questions if for no other reason than to provide some balance in the questioning. It almost brings to mind a joke that I recall many years ago when I lived in Florida and civil rights was quite the issue and I worked on a lot of voter registration issues and the joke about the African/American who was being qualified to vote and he was shown a sign and it was an excerpt from I'm trying to thinkof Aristophenes or one of those discourses and he says would you read the sign and the African American says that sign says this is one African American only a different expletive who is not going to get to vote today. I think the nature of the questions that you've had over the series of the past few months basically says Mr. Bruen that BFI is not going to get the support of certain members of this Board. I do have some questions and perhaps I will address them to you. One is the piece of paper that was provided by Supervisor Powers . I would at some point like you to respond to this why on October 3rd, we are still, you know the rate is still what it is. That is one of my questions but also, I'm looking through trying I had gone through the conditions that were being considered under the land use permit and which ones were being changed or deleted and of course, one of those conditions related to export and the limitation on the receiving waste from out of county which the law has changed and my going through the conditions the substantive conditions attached to that land use permit, correct me if I'm wrong but most of those are housekeeping and most of those do do they not relate to things no longer applicable or they are not truly substantive changes is that that is my read on the matter. Tom Bruen: Well, let me answer that in two ways . First of all, the change in the import/export language was recommended by the Planning Commission based on a staff recommendation to be deleted from the proposed amendments before you so the import/export language in the use permit would remain the same under the Planning Commission recommendation that' s before you. It was my understanding and remains my understanding that all of the other changes were put together based on our application by your staff in an effort to be consistent with resolution which Supervisor 11 i. 1 Smith offered several months ago to try to take all of the County fees that were fixed in stone in the use permit and transfer the ability to determine the amount of those fees over to the franchise agreement so this Board would have flexibility in determining how to spend the money raised through surcharges at Keller Canyon and the franchise agreements approved by this Board several weeks ago basically envision that kind of scenario where the percentage surcharge represents an overall cap on the use permit fees . So, the whole idea of these amendments as I understood it was to clean up the use permit to give this Board discretion to act in accordance with its view of the best interests of the rate payers and public policy. Right now the use permit ties your hands in that regard. So, I would concur that I regard them as being housekeeping items in that sense . Supervisor Bishop: moving on to another subject raised by both Supervisor Smith and Supervisor Powers regarding the financial ability of BFI to perform in the event that mitigation should go beyond what our fees are and to your proprietary having recourse to BFI, I am not as experienced obviously in water resource matters etc . and regulatory agencies, government regulatory agencies of that kind but I am quite familiar with securities and exchange commission regulations and the regulation that you file quarterly 10K and you file or 10Q' s and 1OK' s on an annual basis that reflects what your annual financial report looks like. What are the assets, the unencumbered assets of BFI, what would you estimate that to be . I mean dollar amounts not enumeration of them but . . Tom Bruen: I believe it' s a multi billion dollar company but I don' t have that specific answer. I' d be happy to provide that to you. Supervisor Bishop: I must share with you and maybe I have previously but I was amazed Supervisor Powers and I were in the United Kingdom a few weeks ago and I looked up and I could not believe I could not get away from Solid Waste but there was a BFI truck going down the street . Supervisor DeSaulnier: were you in England together. Supervisor bishop: Oh, no. anyway I think that answers my question. Can you answer this question. Tom Bruen: Well, yes, I think I had already addressed that . The rates, the proprietary rates at ACME will go down when the permanent station opens and they will go down to somewhere in the vicinity of $40 to $50 a ton for waste that hasn' t been committed on any long term basis. The $39 a ton rate is being offered to the jurisdictions and this County in exchange for a 17 month commitment . Supervisor Bishop: Let me ask you this . Now this was from Garaventa and my understanding was that Garaventa was going is Garaventa currently going to the temporary transfer station. I thought they were going to Solano County. Tom Bruen: I have heard I haven' t followed any trucks there. I have heard that most of Garaventa Enterprises' fleet is going to the Protrero Hills Landfill . I have seen some trucks going to the West County Landfill but I don' t know if they' re carrying yard waste or what . Supervisor Powers : Do you have any reason to believe that that' s not an accurate representation of a gate rate ticket from the ACME/Keller Landfill . Tom Bruen: Well, to be honest with you , I've never seen one of their tickets before . Idon' t deny it but I've never seen one so I can' t tell you. 12 V • Supervisor Powers : Well, you don' t deny the fact that the rate is still about $77 . Tom Bruen: It' s 76 . 88, that' s the current rate per ton until the permanent station opens yes . Supervisor DeSaulnier: Tom, before you leave, I have a question. You are offering and you have offered the $39 rate which is the same rate that you offered before we came out of closed session when you were trying to get us to commit for 7 years with two 7 year options . So, where is in your mind, where is what we have in front of us now any different from what you were offering many lifetimes ago, was it five months ago. Where are we different today than we were . . . Tom Bruen: Well, I' ll tell you what I think a difference is . The difference is that the prior proposal was a 21 year lock in on a rate. The proposal that' s on the table right now is a 17 month lock in which is not to say and we've suggested to Solid Waste Authority not suggested, they've asked if we' d be willing to extend that for another 7 year option at their request with CPI and various adjustments and we've said we'd do that and we' d do the same for other jurisdictions as well, so I think the short answer is I believe there' s an advantage in tying down a rate over a period of years because I think that rates are going to climb probably dramatically so over time. And if it were me and I were a city, I'd want a longer term agreement rather than a short term agreement . If the County wants a longer term agreement, we' re happy to negotiate that as well . Certainly the rate is the same. Supervisor DeSaulnier: Well, I think the question is where are you sitting and right now with all of you competing with one another, we will I think all of the franchisees want to get to the point where that just right point and then we want to commit our waste so that it' s as low as possible so I guess my point being my first question is what we have in front of us in terms of the fees that we will charge and the fees that you will charge are very similar to what you were asking us to vote for four months ago. Tom Bruen: Yes, with the exception that I think under the proposal that was before the Board in June there was at least suggestion or proposal by the cities that the County reduce its fees below $10 a ton, the total state and County fee so they' re now at $12 . 24 but that would be the only difference . Supervisor DeSaulnier: We also had $2 included in that for post closure. Tom Bruen: True . Supervisor DeSaulnier: so, we' re very, very close . Tom Bruen: Okay._ Supervisor DeSaulnier: That' s all I wanted to get from you. Thanks . Supervisor Torlakson: Mr. Chairman, I had a question for Mr. Bruen relating to the Mr. Bruen related to the report from Mr. Westman last week on the land use permit . There was the indication that the original LUP conditions on open space and transportation, the mitigation fees, were something that BFI had basically agreed to and not challenged and the statute of challenge period had expired. If there is any change and I don' t know that there should be I expressed this last time whether those fees are relabeled or whether they' re batched together in generic mitigation LUP condition, is BFI willing to say you' ll agree to any or all such combinations or you know what is your 13 thinking about that in terms of challenging that because basically what' s in there now is locked in and secure unless this Board changes it . No one can legally challenge and undo it . If we change even a few words or change the numbers in any way that is open to your challenge and I'm wondering if you have thought that through and have a company position on that . Tom Bruen: Well, I' ll try to answer that question. We support the staff recommendation and the recommendation of the Planning Commission that' s before you with respect to the use permit . We certainly wouldn' t challenge that . The Franchise Agreement has an anti challenge clause in it that says if we challenge anything the County does under the Franchise Agreement it makes the Franchise Agreement null and void. I think the use permit has similar provision. And you' re right there has been no challenge by BFI to any provision in the Franchise Agreement or the use permit . I the only reason I'm hesitating Tom is the way you phrase the question, you were asking me under any circumstances would BFI object and I guess I could conjure up some circumstances where they might but certainly we support the recommendation that' s before you. Supervisor torlakson: And what is that exactly as it relates to the LUP on the LUP what does it exactly say in your staff recommendation? Vic Westman: Perhaps Mr. Chairman you may want to ask Mr Bruen is BFI going to accept the Franchises which the county has offered to them. The amendments to the LUP are to some extent premised on the acceptance of the franchises that you approved a few weeks ago and at least as of right now, I'm not aware that BFI has accepted those franchises . Supervisor torlakson: I think that' s a good question to go along with this one. Tom Bruen: The answer is yes . There are a couple of clerical changes that we need to make in the agreement where we think the franchise agreement doesn' t reflect what this Board did but other than that yeah I think the agreements are, I think we already told you the form of the agreements were acceptable to us . So, that answer the question? Supervisor Powers : Okay. Val Alexeeff : On the LUP specifically. I don' t think we can put in a poison pill in it where it self-destructs if anybody challenges it . Supervisor Torlakson: What is the language you' re proposing right now from the Planning Commission and your staff to the Board. I mean is it $4 or $0 . Val Alexeeff : No, it' s that it be determined by franchise as opposed to determined by use permit . We did not set an amount . we would not presume to do that . Supervisor torlakson: And the LUP language says that the amount will be set or is the LUP language just eliminated in your proposal? Does the LUP condition totally disappear or does it say it will be implemented in the franchise agreement . Look to the franchise agreement for it' s implementing dollar amount and spending guidelines . Chuck Zahn: Supervisor Torlakson, the proposed amendments to the Land Use Permit identify a number of program areas but leave it to the discretion of the Board in setting the amount of the fee . In other words, it' s not specified anymore in the land use permit . The Board has the ability to take it up in another instrument such as the franchise agreement . We have described 14 this amendment as an enabling amendment . Val Alexeeff : I think the intent was to make it all flexible and into the direct Board' s discretion. It was not to predispose the ultimate number. Supervisor Torlakson: That' s it . I mean that adds to my discomfort about taking it out of the LUP and removing that . Vic Westman: Well, perhaps Mr. Chairman, I would suggest you may want to consider a condition if you approve the amendments to the LUP that they won' t become operative until BFI and whatever other corporation we' re dealing with have executed the franchise . Tom Bruen: That would be fine . Vic Westman: And then the franchise itself does provide . . . Supervisor Powers : Well, I don' t think that' s what he' s getting at . He' s not getting at that . Supervisor Bishop: I understood Tom' s question a lot better than I did the answer and I think his question is a question in my mind. As a practical matter, how what we are suggesting is the land use permit still has all the mitigation measures included in the conditions but that the fee setting become a part of the franchise and the fee setting becomes can you say it in one simple sentence what would happen. No. Two simple sentences . What we are proposing taking it out of the land use permit arena and moving it into the franchise and determining one that those things will be covered but the amount will be determined under the franchise . Tom, you give it a shot : Tom Bruen: I was going to say what you' re doing is you' re removing the specific dollar amounts from the land use permit and bringing them under the umbrella of a percentage surcharge in the franchise agreement . Vic Westman: Could I perhaps add in there and at least the staff report you receive take the position that these two fees, I think we' re talking about the open space and transportation fees were not mitigation fees that were required because of a CEQA mitigation program but were imposed for other public purposes . The. . . Supervisor Powers : Everybody' s missed Tom' s point . He doesn' t like the ag and transportation fee designation eliminated. That' s his point and no matter what else you say, it doesn' t make any sense to, I mean that' s what he' s concerned about . Supervisor Bishop: I do have a question along those lines and it' s not of you Tom. It' s of staff and it may be in the report you gave us this morning but what it does it takes transportation and open space out of the land use permit and those amounts are incorporated into the surcharge but we will determine that within the surcharge and that will be determined by the County what that amount will be . But now I'm going to ask, on transportation and open space, can you even though we' re in the middle of public testimony can you tell me what has been spent . Have you provided that information, that was a question I had last week. Supervisor Powers : In the meantime while let' s while you' re looking that up, let' s have Mr. Randall Morrison testify. He submitted a card and wishes to. Randall Morrison: Thank you verymuch. I don' t have any testimony to offer but a question that I think you should consider in view of the dialogue between Supervisor Smith and Mr. Bruen. Now Mr. Bruen has told us today quite explicitly that when BFI lowers it' s rate to $39 a ton it will be operating at a 15 4. loss and a considerable loss . As a competitor of BFI, Valley Waste Management has a legitimate concern in knowing whether or not this whole arrangement that the County is currently discussing with BFI is going to result in a below cost predatory pricing scheme by our competitor. I think it' s of interest to you as well as to us whether or not what Mr. Bruen said is truly accurate . BFI is now going to be pricing its landfill disposal in competition with my client and others in the County at below cost . If that' s the case, I think there are some very serious competitive implications that ought to be explored. Now, I'm not prepared today to give you a dissertation on the Cartwright Act and I doubt that Mr. Bruen is either but I think this is an issue that ought to be looked into because we've been expecting to compete with a competitor who would use appropriate pricing methods and I don' t believe that operating below cost is one of those sanctioned under California law. So, I simply request and suggest that the Board consider this, maybe staff consider this and that BFI report to you a little bit more fully on what they had in mind. This could open up a whole new dimension of problems probably none of us would like to see . Supervisor Powers : I appreciate that from your perspective as a competitor. I'm not sure that I'm really concerned about it and as a regulator unless it affects our contract in some way our franchise or some other aspect of operating that company and in that respect, is that worth taking a look at or do we . . . Vic Westman: Well, we don' t regulate in that area. If Mr. Morrison that his request, perhaps we should refer this to the appropriate State or Federal authorities who consider those matters from a governmental point of view and of course, his client can always exercise his fully and adequate private civil rights to sue in this area. Supervisor Powers : Yeah, I don' t think we need to refer it anywhere . That' s not what I'm concerned about Vic . With this allegation, were it true is that going to affect anything about us doing. . . Vic Westman: No, you have removed the floor pricing and I appreciate the concern but BFI within the range of setting its proprietary rate will set it and you have at least indicated recently that you are no longer going to be involved in that area of regulation. Supervisor Powers : Very good, okay. Thank you Mr. Morrison. Supervisor Torlakson: If litigation emerged out of this issue and BFI could not charge the rates they've offered, do we have an escape clause in the franchise agreement that deals with that? In terms of any waste commitment or any other. . Vic Westman: Well, remember BFI has the option which they can. . . Supervisor Torlakson: Say if they' re forced to put the price back by some litigation to a higher level . Vic Westman: Well, that in fact may force them out of business . As I understand it competitors are offering similar or lower rates at this time and it would appear that at some point BFI will no longer be operating and of course, that' s an option they have under the LUP and the franchise is simply to not operate. Supervisor Smith: I guess I'm not concerned so much from the perspective of competition or anti-trust issues or all of that but I am concerned about the fact that the franchise under which the interim rates were set was a contract between the County and the operator that committed the operator to run at a certain profit margin at a certain fixed rate and now essentially we' re being told that they can actually operate quite a bit lower and 16 a it just seems to me that a question is raised about the process and the decision and the assumptions and the information that were made two and a half years ago and whether that process was tainted by artificially inflated costs or operational costs that led the Board to allow them to charge a fee much higher than apparently now they' re able to run at and in that sense whether they owe a refund to the people who've been paying the rate in the County. And I think that' s an appropriate concern for us to have . Supervisor Powers : We spent a tremendous amount of money in consulting fees and going back and forth trying to get information from ACME and BFI and there' s a lot of data on this that' s for sure about what actually did happen during the rate setting process . I still have some in my office library and I mean we can look at it but I'm not sure where we go with that . I mean I think it' s worth looking at in terms of I mean is there a way I guess Vic if there was inappropriate pricing situation and we weren' t given the proper information can we go back and seek a refund for the rate payers. Vic Westman: Well, I think that would be very difficult considering that the Board exercised its discretion to fix a price after hearing a great deal of testimony from many sides in this matter and since the date of that, there has never been any either BFI or County initiated reconsideration of that rate setting process and as far as I know there' s been no studies done specifically to support any change in those rates . Supervisor Powers : Assuming we did a study to indicate that historically the information was not accurate, now that we' re giving up rate regulation, we can' t jump out of the situation and ask them to even reduce a lower rate in order to gather that back from them. Vic Westman: Well, I don' t know if the rate, if the information that was provided by BFI to our consultants was not accurate at the time. I mean it was a very complex process and we did hire a consultant who did review a lot of information and then provide us with the consultant' s recommendation. Whether any of that information that the consultant evaluated was incorrect, I don' t believe that' s ever been established. Even the Grand Jury does not even purport to establish that in their report . If you want that examined, you'd have to direct staff . . Supervisor Smith: Well, that' s why I raised it now because actually until this land use permit is modified, we have not really forgone rate regulation. I raise it at this point, because if we take this step forever if this is a concern we never have the option of dealing with that issue in the future . Whether we want to or not is another question. Supervisor Bishop: What is before us is the land use permit and the open space and the transportation aspect, the $2 and $2 as far they were phrased mitigation, but I think in looking at how those funds have been expended, it is appropriate for us to determine I think whether or not we are truly talking about mitigation. Under transportation, I there' s no question but there is mitigation, that there is a nexus between the impact of the landfill and the transfer station and what the funds are being spent on. For example, going down in 92 , 93 , 93-94, Bailey Road widening, traffic signs Evora Road, litter pickup, route restriction enforcement so on and so forth. I think there is a clear nexus there . On open space, I have some real problems . Rodent and thistle control, tree planting, East Bay Regional Park District trail maintenance, Ambrose Wetlands mitigation, farm bureau, the ag soils bank and the audubon outreach, I mean I'm just going over those. In both of those, there was a fund balance for 92-93 of $236, 000 in the transportation and $395, 000 in open space . My view is perhaps transportation we are 17 addressing mitigation. In open space, we are talking about other County needs and other County programs that I think are not directly tied to the landfill and the transfer station. I think within the structure that we have and the surcharge and the percentage amount that easily we could address some of the same issues that are addressed here and the issues are going to be the same from year to year rather than having to go through the land use permit process that it is something that is appropriate for the purvue of this Board and we will take a continuing interest in it . I feel that yes we took a step, a very small step in the direction of reducing our fees . I feel as I said initially, that by getting it down to someplace in the range of $7 or even lower than that . But the first priority going toward just host mitigation and within that host mitigation talk about transportation because I think basically that' s what we' re trying to mitigate, transportation and something that comes back to the host community out of that percentage surcharge but frankly, to deal with the land use permit and set up that mechanism does not seem particularly productive and looking at the numbers and how the dollars were spent, clearly we had fund balances both years in both of those mitigation fees and—that' s my. . . Supervisor Powers : Thank you for your comments . I asked staff for a copy of a letter that apparently was circulated in the Board Room two weeks ago about the conditions and the setting of the rate . I'm informed that the staff never got that letter. It just got circulated around and where it went I dont' know, nobody does . Supervisor Bishop: Who was the letter from? Supervisor Powers : I don' t know. Purported to be from BFI or ACME or Mr. Bruen or somebody in that crowd about what they were doing with rates . I feel extremely insecure about making a decision today about a very complicated set of circumstances dealing with the franchise agreements which now we understand there are "some clerical changes that need to be made" , with the land use permit relationship with the franchise agreement, and with particularly disturbed the fact that this Board made a good faith effort to try to reduce the rates and now we understand the conditions are changed or they weren' t sincere. I want a letter with a commitment from BFI to this County about what will happen if the rates that we reduce are implemented and what they will do. I want to know what they will do and I want to have something in writing from an appropriate person that has the ability to make that commitment and I want to take the opportunity to figure out how the land use permit provisions relate to the franchise agreement so I just ask for one week to do that and we can in the meantime absorb all of this and hopefully Mr. Bruen you've heard my request for that letter and I appreciate having it as soon as possible. Supervisor Smith: Can I .make one request . I attended the Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority meeting now two weeks ago when we presented to them our intent, our letter of intent to join and they were anxious to get moving with that . I wonder if we might at least proceed with authorizing the staff to proceed with that effort to join the Solid Waste Authority. Supervisor Powres : I'm not sure I agree with all of the conditions they've imposed on it but I think we ought to respond that yes, we want to negotiate some arrangement . Supervisor Smith: Well, I think the bottom line that I represented and I think the Board agreed was that we need when we join we need to be equal partners with all the cities with no external otherwise unreasonable requirements and no other limitations on our authority. So, I'd make the motion that we authorize staff to draft documents to join the Solid Waste Authority. 18 Supervisor Powers : Motion and a second. Any further discussion? If none, all in favor of the motion signify by saying aye . And is there objection to putting the matter over one week. I' d like to see the franchise back with proposed clerical changes and there may be some changes that this Board is going to consider too because of the interrelationship between the land use permit . The land use permit and those items should be on the agenda. Vic Westman: You' re continuing the hearing on the land use permit till next week at whatever time 2 o' clock. Supervisor Powers : That' s correct . What' s a good time? Morning? No time is a good time . 2 o' clock again. Okay. Supervisor Torlakson: Mr. Chairman, along with the request you've made I want to further explore and I want to express my concern about changing the land use permit and understand better between now and next week the mechanisms by which the franchise agreement either the dollar amounts or the dedication of funds can be changed. What guidelines do we have . Is there just three votes on any given noticed hearing of the Board on any given Tuesday. I'm speaking on behalf of the community of Pittsburg and Bay Point that are the host communities in terms of what they expected and what the guarantee of the land use permit is in terms of both the environmental process which included CEQA but also the environmental review/public discussion process which involved everybody coming in with information and those fees getting locked into the land use permit . So, for the City of Pittsburg' s point of view, the Bay Point Municipal Council' s point of view, for Citizens United and property owners, the LUP is a place that' s pretty firm. Where the franchise agreement is sort of in never, never land in terms of something could change next month a different alignment of Board members on different issues . THe money that might be earmarked or dedicated to the community might go to something else instead. So, that' s the kind of thing I wanted explored and I will be looking at with staff between now and next week. Supervisor Powers : Okay. Val did you have . . Val Alexeeff : Yeah, did you want us to prepare any alternatives for that or were you going to prepare them yourself . I'm not sure of the direction on how the Board would make such a decision. Supervisor Powers : I'm not sure there' s any direction at this point but clearly we' d like to know about the letter from ACME Keller. We' d like to have some indication about what those "clerical changes" are and if you have anything to add please feel free to do. Supervisor DeSaulnier: For me, I think it would be helpful if you came up with some options . I mean it doesn' t say the Board is going to take it but as Supervisor Bishop said an hour and a half ago, we get into the quagmire of it would be nice to finally make some decisions on garbage. Supervisor Powers : Okay, that will be fine . Without objection the matter and the hearings are put over. We also want the franchise on at the same time. And the alternatives, so, we take five minutes and then we' ll go to the Concord Diamond issue. 19