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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMINUTES - 10041994 - H.3 H. 3 and H.4 THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS OF CONTRA COSTA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA Adopted this Order on October 4, 1994 by the following vote: AYES: Supervisors Smith, Bishop, DeSaulnier, Torlakson and Powers NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: None SUBJECT: Report From The director, Growth Management and Economic Development Agency, to Consider Tipping Fees and Other Landfill Relation Actions; and Hearing On Amendment 1 to Land Use Permit 2020-89 Regulating Keller Canyon Landfill, Bay Point/Pittsburg Area. On September 27, 1994 the Board of Supervisors continued to this date the hearing on the recommendation of the Contra Costa County Planning Commission on the request of the Keller Canyon Landfill Company (applicant and owner) for approval of Amendment 1 to Land Use Permit 2020-89 which regulates Keller Canyon Landfill . Amendment 1 proposes to delete or revise conditions of approval established by LUP 2020-89 pertaining to fees paid by the Landfill to Contra Costa County. These include fees for transportation and open space, and resource recovery. Some fees may be eliminated or reduced. Rate setting conditions would be modified. Area-of-origin provisions would be revised for consistency with recent federal court decisions . Amendment 1 does not propose any physical changes to the Landfill facility or site, or any changes to its operating requirements . None of the fee changes affect mitigation measures imposed by the Landfill' s Environmental Impact Report . A Notice of Exemption has been filed pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act, in the Bay Point/Pittsburg area; and On September 27, 1994 , the Board of Supervisors also continued to this date the report from the Director, Growth Management and Economic Development Agency to consider tipping fees (their amounts and levels) and other landfill related actions . Val Alexeeff, Director, Growth Management and Economic Development Agency, presented the staff report addressing concerns raised by the Board at the September 27, 1994 meeting. Supervisor Powers requested clarification on the number of the land use permit issues that had been referred to the Planning Commission. Charles Zahn, Community Development Department, responded to Supervisor Powers request . Victor Westman, County Counsel, commented on a memorandum provided by his office to address some of the concerns contained in a letter from Mr. Randall Morrison from last week. Supervisor Powers inquired as to whether there was a letter or written document from Browning Ferris Industries which reflects conditions upon which the proprietary rates will be reduced. Tom Bruen, representing Browning Ferris Industries, responded that there had been a letter provided two or three hearings back and he commented on a proposal to the Central Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority and to the Browning Ferris Franchises which would result in the combined rate for the transfer station and the landfill at Keller Canyon being reduced to $39 a ton in exchange for a seventeen month wastestream commitment . Supervisor Powers and Mr. Bruen discussed the proposed rate. The following persons appeared and presented testimony: Frank Aiello, 1734 Bridgeview, Pittsburg, representing Citizens United; Lance Dow, 2232 Concord Drive, Pittsburg; Supervisor Smith inquired about lowering the proprietary rate and justifying previous Board action, and a possible refund to the rate payer. Mr. Bruen responded on going back to the assumptions made by Deloitte Touche when the rate was originally set for the Keller Canyon Landfill . Supervisor Powers inquired about the ability of Browning Ferris Industries to address the environmental issues as a losing proposition. Mr. Bruen advised that the parent company stands behind this operation like all of its operations and that that really should not be an issue . Supervisor Bishop requested clarification on a copy of a landfill receipt that was provided by Supervisor Powers and why the rate is still what it is, and on most of the changes to the conditions being housekeeping changes, or relating to things that are no longer applicable, not truly substantive changes . Mr. Bruen responded that his understanding of the amendments was to clean up the use permit to give this Board discretion to act in accordance with its view of the best interests of the rate payers and public policy. Supervisor Bishop inquired as to the assets of Browning Ferris Inc . Mr. Bruen responded that he did not have a specific answer but would be happy to provide it . Supervisor DeSaulnier inquired as to the difference between the $39 rate and what was being offered some five months ago. Mr. Bruen responded on the differences . Supervisor Torlakson inquired as to Browning Ferris Industries' position on any change in the mitigation fees whether they are batched together in a generic mitigation Land Use Permit condition. Mr. Bruen responded that they support the staff recommendation and the recommendation of the Planning Commission before the Board with respect to the Land Use Permit and that the franchise agreement has an anti-challenge clause in it . Victor Westman, County Counsel, inquired whether Browning Ferris Inc . is going to accept the franchises which the County has offered to them, and that the amendments to the land use permit are to some extent premised on the acceptance of the franchises that the Board approved a few weeks ago. Mr. Bruen responded affirmatively and commented that there were a couple of clerical changes that need to be made in the agreement where they felt that it does not reflect what the Board did but the form of the agreements is acceptable to them. Supervisor Torlakson expressed discomfort with removing the fee language from the land use permit and placing it in the franchise agreement . Mr. Westman suggested consideration of a condition if the Board approves the amendments to the land use permit that they would not become operative until Browning Ferris Industries and whatever other corporation have executed the franchise. The Board discussed the issue of the fees and their placement in documents . Randall Morrison, 1999 Harrison Street, Oakland, representing Valley Waste Management, expressed concerns with BFI lowering the proprietary rate . , The Board discussed the issues raised by Mr. Morrison. Supervisor Bishop commented that what was before the Board is the land use permit and the open space and the transportation aspect, and that it was appropriate to determine whether or not they are truly mitigation. Supervisor Powers requested a letter with a commitment from Browning Ferris Industries to this County about what will happen if the rates that the Board reduces are implemented and what they will do and he requested one week to determine how the land use permit provisions relate to the franchise agreement . Supervisor Smith moved that the staff be authorized to draft documents to join the Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority. The vote on the motion was unanimous . Supervisor Powers advised that without objection the matter would be continued for one week and he advised that the franchise was to be back with proposed clerical changes and for consideration of possible Board changes . Supervisor Torlakson expressed his concerns about changing the land use permit . Supervisor DeSaulnier requested staff to prepared some alternatives for Board consideration. IT IS BY THE BOARD ORDERED that the report from the Director, Growth Management and Economic Development Agency, to consider tipping fees (their amount and levels) and other landfill related actions is CONTINUED to October 11, 1994 at 2 P.M. ; and staff is AUTHORIZED to draft documentation to join the Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority; and IT IS BY THE BOARD ORDERED that the hearing on the recommendation of the Contra Costa County Planning Commission on the request of the Keller Canyon Landfill Company (applicant and owner) for approval of Amendment 1 to Land Use Permit 2020-89 which regulates Keller Canyon Landfill is CONTINUED to October 11, 1994 at 2 P.M. ; and staff is REQUESTED to respond to Board concerns raised at this meeting. cc : GMEDA County Counsel Community Development t hereby certify that this to a true and correct copy of Browning Ferris Industries an action taken and entarod on the minutes of the Board of Supervito o tM date drogR ATTESTED: �c 1°'' �1{�I q PHIL BATCHELOR.Clark of the Board Su and nn BY - -- Addendum Item 2.4 from 9/27/94 To Be Heard at 2pm on 10/4/94 with Item:H-3 Contra TO: BOARD OF SUPERVISORS Costa FROM: VAL ALEXEEFF, DIRECTOR County GROWTH MANAGEMENT & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGENCY DATE: OCTOBER 4, 1994 SUBJECT: CONSIDER ADDENDUM TO 9-27-94 BOARD AGENDA ITEM 2.4 ON TIPPING FEES AND OTHER LANDFILL RELATED ACTIONS SPECIFIC REQUEST(S) OR RECOMMENDATION(S) & BACKGROUND AND JUSTIFICATION RECOMMENDATIONS Accept report. from GMEDA Director on additional information requested by Board members on Tipping Fees and other Landfill Related Matters. FISCAL IMPACT Reductions to the General Fund will occur. BACKGROUND/REASONS FOR RECOMMENDATIONS On September 27, 1994 the Board of Supervisors continued Item 2.4 to the meeting of October 4, 1994 and requested information regarding estimated disposal tonnages/revenues and use of the fees originally required at Keller Canyon Landfill. The requested information is contained in Attachment lb and 1c. Additionally, Attachment la now includes information obtained from all solid waste hauling/disposal companies which have indicated an interest in providing disposal of solid waste generated in Contra Costa County. Attachment 1d is the letter received from the Central Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority. CONTINUED ON ATTACHMENT: X YES SIGNATURE\� _ RECOMMENDATION OF COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR _ RECOMMENDATION OF BOARD COMMITTEE _ APPROVE _ OTHER ACTION OF BOARD707""7. _ APPROVED AS RECOMMENDED OTHER VOTE OF SUPERVISORS I HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A _ UNANIMOUS (ABSENT TRUE AND CORRECT COPY OF AN AYES: NOES: ACTION TAKEN AND ENTERED ON THE ABSENT: ABSTAIN: MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON THE DATE SHOWN. Contact: Val Alexeeff (510/646-1620) ATTESTED October 4 , 1994 cc: Community Development Dept. (CDD) PHIL BATCHELOR, CLERK OF County Administrator THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS County Counsel AND COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR GMEDA Departments 939uAWSWcompar.2 BY_ , DEPUTY cs G G N 4 `4 G 4 Y O * 3 O E tMm- o n) N Y co �.> G co d N O •� i tEo 6) N O G N T Gto O T ca O G d G a O d eS � 7 °. 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Tonna me/Revenue by Jurisdiction Jurisdiction Hauler 1990 Tonnage $1:00/Ton Estimated Revenue Antioch phbs 51,280 $51,280.00 Brentwood gar 6,147 $6,147.00 Clayton phbs 5,989 $5,989.00 Concord gar 108,733 $108,733.00 Danville vw 28,403 $28,403.00 Lafayette vw 20,459 $20,459.00 Martinez phbs 31,029 $31,029.00 Moraga om 12,431 $12,431.00 Orinda om 14,711 $14,711.00 Pleasant Hill phbs 29,017 $29,017.00 San Ramon vw 39,047 $39,047.00 Unincorp Central Co. (PHBS/CCCSD) phbs 15,814 $15,814.00 Unincorp Central Co. (VW/CCCSD) vw 35,830 $35,830.00 Unincorp East Co.(County) ccc 27,328 $27,328.00 Unincorp East Co.(Garaventa) gar 26,071 $26,071.00 Walnut Creek vw 77,494 $77,494.00 Tota 529,783 $529,783.00 T nnne/R v n re by Jurisdiction (Central n ttl Jurisdiction Hauler 1990 Tonnage $1:00/Ton Estimated Revenue Clayton phbs 5,989 $5,989.00 Danville vw 28,403 $28,403.00 Lafayette vw 20,459 $20,459.00 Martinez phbs 31,029 $31,029.00 Moraga om 12,431 $12,431.00 Orinda om 14,711 $14,711.00 Pleasant Hill phbs 29,017 $29,017.00 San Ramon vw 39,047 $39,047.00 Unincorp Central Co.(PHBS/CCCSD) phbs 15,814 $15,814.00 Unincorp Central Co.(VW/CCCSD) vw 35,830 $35,830.00 Walnut Creek vw 77,494 $77,494.00 Tota 310,224 $310,224.00 RLAI:toonage.tbl 9.29.94 1 Attachment ##lc SU{CHARGE 1992/93 1993/94 Revenues: $1,437,515 $1,235,488 ..................................... ..... ....... .................... ... ........ ............................. ................... .................. ........................................ Expenditures: SSI Advocacy 60,000 60,000 Recycling Center 572,912 210,000 Career Development - 15,000 15,000 GA Workcrews Solid Waste Administration 458,648 0 Sheriff/DA -0- 876,200 Expenditure Total $1,106,560 $1,161,200 Difference Between Revenues & $330,950 $74,288 Expenditures Per Year TOTAL BOTH YEARS $405,243 Tonnage for July 1994 was 28,238 with equivalent revenue of $109,062.80 VAdrg c:surchge (revised 9/28/94) 1 fiRANSPORTAT ON Ji992/93 1993!94 Revenues: $831,716 $641,812 Expenditures: Bailey Road Widening 300,000 29,204 Traffic Signs -0- 6,000 Evora Road -0- 147,000 Litter Pickup 245,427 202,000 Route Restriction 50,000 70,000 Enforcement Transportation & Congestion -0- 100,000 Relief Roadside Hazardous Cleanup -0- 12,000 Expenditure Total * $595,427 $566,204 Difference Between Revenues & $236,289 $757608 Expenditures Per Year TOTAL;BOTH YEA>€tS 717�� 1 $311,897 Mitigation fee revenues remaining after expenditures are retained in the Keller Canyon Mitigation Fund. *Staff administrative costs are not included. TONNAGE FOR JULY 1994 WAS 28,238 WITH EQUIVALENT REVENUE OF$56,476. VA:drg CAMspori (revised 9/28/94) 1 ;COMMUNITY ASSISTANCE 1..992/93 1993/94 Revenues: $831,716 $641,812 Expenditures: Code Enforcement 60,000 60,000 Property Cleanup 90,000 90,000 Patrol/Bay Point Res. Deputy 190,000 140,000 Community Mitigation 160,000 162,815 Contracts Pittsburg Library Homework -0- 51,000 Help Center Family Service Integration -0- 46,185 Expenditure Total * $500,000 $550,000 Difference Between Revenues & $331,716 $911)812 Expenditures Per Year TOTAL.;BOTH YEARS $423,528 Mitigation fee revenues remaining after expenditures are retained in the Keller Canyon Mitigation Fund. Please see attached list of contractors. *Staff administrative costs are not included. TONNAGE FOR JULY 1994 WAS 28,238 WITH EQUIVALENT REVENUE OF$56,476. VA:drg c:cmtyasst (revised 9/28/94) 1 OPEN SPACE/AGRICULTURE: 1992/93 1993/94 Revenues: $831,716 $641,812 Expenditures: Rodent/Thistle Control 86,661 60,000 Tree Planting 100,000 100,000 EBRPD Trail Maintenance -0- 90,000 Ambrose Open Space -0- 90,000 Wetlands Mitigation -0- 50,000 Delta Env. Science Center -0- 351000 Audobon Conservation Outreach -0- 10,000 Farm Bureau -0- 5,000 Ag/Soils Bank 250,000 250,000 Expenditure Total * $436,661 $690,000 Difference Between Revenues & $395,055 - $ 411)812 Expenditures Per Year TOTAL,BOTS L 3� ARS " $346,867 Mitigation fee revenues remaining after expenditures are retained in the Keller Canyon Mitigation Fund. *Staff administrative costs are not included. TONNAGE FOR JULY 1994 WAS 28,238 WITH EQUIVALENT REVENUE OF$56,476. VA:drg c:opnspc.agr (revised 9/28/94) 1 Attachment #1d CONTRA COSTA r�. CENTRAL CON TRJUSFIDWSH WbID WASTE AUTHORITY 4737 Imhof/Place, Suite 4 COiii 1UNITY .t'"B.CL4u&w,Chair Martinez, California 94553 DEVELOPMENT DEPT sENEWOLFE,VaChair 6W OORYL.CARR.Director EKLYNULM Director MARYLOUOUM,Director R WAbUTYAWY.Director September 26, 1994 WD NVIS,MtAAra"6e 9W Director JOYCE F.NAM,SecrebryorNAuOho* (510)719.1661 fir(510)729.516? Honorable Tom Powers, Chairperson Contra Costa County Board of Supervisors County Administration Building 651 Pine Street, 11th Floor Martinez, CA 94553 Reference: Request of County to join Central Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority Dear Chairperson Powers and Honorable Board Members: At its meeting of September 22, 1994,the Board of Directors of the Central Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority (CCCSWA) considered the request of your Board for County membership in this Authority. The Authority Board members present unanimously supported the County's request for membership and approved in concept the County's entrance into this organization pursuant to the general terms set forth below. Supervisor Smith and County staff member Louise Aiello provided some insight into the County's intentions regarding joining the CCCSWA. We welcomed Supervisor Smith's comments although he made it clear that his remarks could, of course, not bind the entire Board of Supervisors with regard to the terms and conditions under which the County would join the Authority. For that reason, we have outlined below the terms under which the Authority Board of Directors would welcome the entrance of the County as an equal member to the Authority. The following is a brief outline of those terms: • The County shall join as equal member with two (2) voting members. • County Board Authority members shall be supervisors. • The CCCSWA plans to issue the RFP or extend a franchise (in order to provide the ratepayers with the earliest potential date of rate reduction) at its next meeting to be held on October 13, 1994. The County's consideration of membership should bear this timeline in mind. somber geodes: Central Contra Costa Sanitary District City of San Ramon City of Walnut Creek ® A I.1 ciP 1 Honorable Tom Powers, Chairperson Contra Costa County Board of Supervisors September 26, 1994 Page 2 0 County must agree to delegate franchising authority to the CCCSWA for the unincorporated areas within the current Authority boundaries (within RFP Zones 1 and 2). • County must agree to participate in CCCSWA with an acknowledgment that the intention of the Authority is to pursue and contract for the lowest cost collection and disposal options for the designated service levels, without respect to the location of ultimate disposal of the solid waste collected from the jurisdiction (e.g., in-county or out-of-count). • County must acknowledge that an Authority decision with regard to collection, franchising, and/or disposal may not be consistent with the County's historic position. Accordingly, the County must in good faith commit to working constructively within the Authority to implement that decision, rather than contest it through litigation or similar actions. In addition to the general terms set forth above, the Authority Board discussed the issue of a buy-in charge for the County, given the substantial sums spent by the current member agencies to fund the JPA's current operations, including the ongoing negotiations and the development of the RFP process. The Authority Board members'initial conclusion suggested that there should be no buy-in cost for the County with regard to the areas currently under the franchise of the Central Contra Costa Sanitary District, since contributions of members have been on a waste volume basis. However, to the extent that the County joins the JPA to administer solid waste franchies for unincorporated areas not within the current CCCSD franchise areas, an appropriate buy-in fee would be calculated. The Authority assumes that there will be no such areas initially, and accordingly, no required buy-in charge. The Authority Board further indicated that the County should understand it is the Authority's intention to impose a liability/closure fee surcharge on the collection rates for both the incorporated and/or unincorporated areas within its current jurisdictional boundaries for costs and liabilities arising from the Acme lawsuit. The Authority's intent is that the waste shed areas should pay their proportional share of any liabilities or costs arising from the Acme Landfill, without regard to whether the County, CCCSD, or the Authority in fact issues the franchise in the future. Honorable Tom Powers, Chairperson Contra Costa County Board of Supervisors September 26, 1994 Page 3 On behalf of the CCCSWA, I would like to commend the Board's agreement in concept that the ratepayers' best interest are served by the County joining with the other solid waste franchising entities as Authority members to address Central County waste challenges. Sincerely, John B. Clausen, President Central Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority cc: G. Carr J. Clausen E. Munn M. Oliver S. Rainey G. Wolfe D. Blubaugh R. Dolan H. Moniz F. Davis ti- Text of item H. 3 and H.4 from October 4, 1994 Supervisor Powers : Okay, we' ll go to the afternoon hearings . Item H. 3 and I guess we can take H.4 together. Val Alexeeff : Good afternoon. We have a requested holdover from the previous week today at this time and there was some testimony that was provided last week and the Board moved to hold the matter over, to keep the hearing open and to bring the matter up again this week. The items before you are essentially in two bites . One is the issue of the use permit which was brought up in an effort to reduce fees and handle some other issues . And secondly, on the various issues related to the franchise, a number of matters that the Board had requested to be brought back last week that are outlined in the staff report . There are some additional studies and some additional analyses here for the Board' s consideration and so I' ll stop with that and be happy to answer any questions . Supervisor Powers : Questions? Supervisor Smith: I just asked Chuck Zahn off the record. I just want to comment on the record. Keller started accepting waste on 5/7/92 , is that correct? Val Alexeeff : That date sounds right, yeah. Supervisor Smith: Is that right? Scott . Nobody knows . Tom I mean okay thanks . Supervisor Bishop: I believe 5/7/92 they started accepting waste? Val Alexeeff : That' s correct . Is there a disagreement over that? Supervisor Smith: Not that I know of . I wasn' t there. Supervisor Bishop: Nor was I . Supervisor Powers : Okay, you know I looked over this report and the one report that refers to let me see if I can find it because there' s a lot of reports here. It' s a report dated September 22nd and it' s on the land use permit and I you know there' s a whole host of issues that are raised in this that I didn' t realize that the Board requested to be discussed at the Planning Commission. As I recall it, we referred two items to the Planning Commission, one was the fees related to agriculture and transportation and the other one was the issue of the rate regulation process, having a lid and a floor, yet there are a whole bunch of other conditions in the land use permit that are being modified and or eliminated and they seem to have a substantial amount of impact even though they' re referred to in some places as housekeeping and I for instance well I could say a lot of for instances because there are a whole bunch of them. And where they contract with the County for the mitigation, geotechnical services is now being shifted to an independent, supposedly independent contractor paid for by the landfill operator and eliminating a couple of surcharges that the Board did not discuss . Cost of the resource management program. And it' s being changed to a fixed fee . Tonnage charge . A portion and I can' t quite understand how it' s being dealt with and elimination of the tonnage fee referred to and adding a section in 31 . 10 tonnage fee or other means of funding and I'm not quite understanding that . So; I'm just wondering where, what Board Orders those other issues were derived from or just how did they get before the Planning Commission without the Board directing that they be done? And I mean all of those besides the issue of rate setting floor and ceiling and the two fees . Wherein can you say that those issues got referred to the County Planning 1 Commission by this Board? Chuck Zahn: Mr. Chairman, members of this Board, the particular items related to the financing, by and large related to the financing of programs to the Keller Land Use Permit, subject of what kind of fees were being imposed on Keller and what could one do with those fees . What did one have the latitude to do with those fees under the land use permit had been discussed at several meetings including the joint committee' s meetings . The intent as is indicated in the staff report is to enable the Board to have the latitude or the ability to deal with these fees in terms of their amount relative to other fees and in instruments other than the land use permit where they're locked in. The fees that relate to the resource recovery program for example, there were two separate fees in the original land use permit . Those have basically now been melded into one condition and the condition that enables the Board to consider the level of these fees with other fees in setting them under the cap for fees that' s being discussed. The fees dealing with the compliance and mitigation monitoring program where again there were two and now we' re proposing one, the level of those fees was again discussed at the ad hoc committee meetings . It' s been part of the discussion of fees that' s been before the Board. Supervisor Powers : Well, I surely agree that some of these conditions are linked to fees but we discussed very specifically issues that related to fees that we referred to the Planning Commission and secondly, and so I'm surprised that other fees were referred at least without some discussion by the Board and secondly, the some of these conditions do not relate to fees . They relate to the process by which mitigation monitoring is carried out, the process by which the geotechnical services are going to be carried out, the discussion of hauling of vehicles, waste hauling vehicles and the extent allowed by law that that should be done . So, they' re well beyond some of the things that I recall being discussed and I'm just wondering whether or not there' s some Board Order that I missed that had those in because as I recall, there were a very specific set of Board Orders referring matters to the Planning Commission. What I'm gathering is that someone took license and to do that, those other things and I'm just wondering how that got carried out . Val Alexeeff : The applicant for the use permit amendment was BFI . They also had a role because they actually made formal application to amend the use permit . Supervisor Powers : I see. Okay, so it was their application that desired these to be . . . Supervisor Bishop: I have a couple of questions . At this juncture, we have before us the land use permit and what is the other item that we are looking at? The franchise . . Val Alexeeff : Okay, well what the Board did was instruct staff to come back with a series of information items the JPA item, the comparison of the landfill proposals that the three contenders, the three currently contenders have made . I believe Supervisor Bishop that you wanted some additional information on the current balances in the various mitigation accounts and I think that' s what we have before you. You also wanted the tonnages in different parts of the County. Supervisor Bishop: You know I'm sure that before I arrived on this Board, the determination of where to site a landfill created all kinds of chaos and headaches on the part of the prior Board, but I can tell you this is an issue that it' s like sinking in quicksand, that the more we try to get out of it, the deeper we sink and it is an extremely complex issue but sometimes I think we really need to cut through it and say what are we really trying to achieve and I think if we would all just be real 2 t .- straightforward about what the questions are that we have and what are the answers that we require, I think we need to make a decision and get on with the business of this County. I understood you to say Supervisor Powers that there was something here about conditions in the land use permit, that certain things are being deleted and certain things are being added. It would help me if after I finish speaking you could give me some specifics . I have a great deal of concern one, and this is a concern that goes back before I ever took office and that was concern with fees that we are imposing on a landfill, especially as they relate toward to mitigation fees to open space and , transportation improvements . This is not a new you know position that I'm taking. It is something that I have taken one of the very first things that I was extremely concerned about that those fees added on the cost of garbage disposal or solid waste disposal and it has always been my objective to get those fees down and when I go back historically as sometimes we are wont to do, and I recall when there was no option to take garbage out of the County. Excuse me for calling it garbage instead of solid waste but before we were taking garbage waste and we had no option to it out of the County, I can remember conversations with Mr. Norris in the back and I can remember conversations with Waste Management and I can remember conversations from an assortment of people about how outrageous those fees were, that there was no nexus between because at that time, everyone was going to have to pay those fees and it made the overall cost of disposal extremely high, so there were a lot of people joining with me and being concerned . . . . . . . .they' re dealing with Eastin fund, how some of those costs are fixed, that we have no discretion over but I'm also getting mixed . . .as to how other Counties are dealing with this . It helps me to understand how other Counties are dealing with this and quite frankly, it was really distressing to me to be here on last Tuesday morning and up until that time receiving one correspondence from Mr. Bruen' s office to the effect that in Solano County, they are considering a reduction of fees and having a counter opposition to that saying that is not true, they are not considering that, it is not on the calendar and that $41 . 50 won' t go up and it won' t go down no matter what they do and then getting another letter after I'm here at the Board at 9 :30 in the morning from Mr. Norris saying yes, it is true. It' s not that complex. We either have to make an effort on our part to get the fees down to bring the transportation and open space under out from under a land use permit and incorporate it and handle it at this Board so that we don' t have to go back to the Planning Commission and have it governed by a land use permit . To me that was one of the objectives that we were trying to accomplish and that we could have some reasonable rate setting or fee setting here at the Board and frankly, again I think when we end up with a $12 and something, we haven' t gone far enough but I'm looking here to me the important documents that are simple that are not complex, are the documents that were provided to us the last time on September 27th and we just look at this and look at what the recommendation at the Planning Commission made a recommendation and at this point, I'm not sure that they did make a recommendation, but I think we need to deal with this issue . Supervisor Powers : Thank you for those comments . I think you missed one big issue . First of all, what I'm referring to is page 8, 9, 12, 13 and 14 of a staff report dated September 22nd by Harvey Bragdon and Charles Zahn to the Board of Supervisors . Supervisor Bishop: Okay, could you give me those pages again 8 . . Supervisor Powers : Why don' t you write them down and look at them later, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 of the staff report dated September 22nd. Okay, now let me say one thing you forgot and that is getting the rates down. Now you talked about fees and I think we acted on that . And we did reduce the fees substantially on two occasions . . 80 on one and x number of dollars to get it 3 w s' t down to $12 . 24 on the other and I thought when we did that, along with our July action eliminating the floor on the rates, that we would get some rate relief from the ACME/BFI corporation. I have here in my possession and October 3rd dated ticket from the ACME landfill corporation reflecting and I don' t know who' s it is but the words whose went through here went out but it was a garbage truck carrying 31, 900 pounds gross weight of I guess the TARE weight is about 28, 000 pounds and the most important thing is the rate that' s being charged. $76 . 88 . It does not reflect the fee decrease that we enacted a couple three weeks ago. It does reflect an . 80 reduction that we did oh a couple of months ago I believe . But it does not reflect the July reduction in rates . So, the one thing we don' t have to give up at this point is a private corporation charging too much for municipal waste and the $62 a ton being charged today is substantially higher than we were being told when we reduced the rates to 39 supposedly, well we didn' t reduce them, we let them float and they haven' t floated anywhere and frankly, that disturbs me and it disturbs me that several conditions that are suggested by the operator when they filed the land use permit modification are in their favor and not in the public' s favor and it reduces fees and inspection programs even further and that' s why I'm concerned about it, so I think we can go and ask our questions . I'd appreciate being able to take testimony from individuals who are here to testify and then we can argue about what we' re here about and make some decision. Supervisor Bishop: Could I ask you a question about the piece of paper you have. Where did that come from and . . . Supervisor Powers : I got it on my fax machine and it came from Garaventa Enterprises . So, they didn' t scratch out all the . . . Supervisor Bishop: Could we have a copy, could each of us have a copy of that . Supervisor Torlakson: So, basically you' re saying that the tipping charge is still at $77 . It hasn' t gone down at all . And that' s a serious concern. I'm glad that you've raised that publicly because we want to see the rates go down and we need to do some more things here to discuss the fees and so forth but there' s the ability and been so for months to have the fees drop at the tipping fee point at the transfer station. It hasn' t happened. And I think we need to register our collective concern about that . Supervisor Powers : Okay, were there any other comments by staff before we take public testimony. Val Alexeeff : Not at this time . Supervisor Powers : Very good. Vic Westman: Mr. Chairman, could I mention that we provided you with a memorandum that addressed some of the concerns of Mr. Morrison I believe that' s his name' s letter which was provided to me at the time of the hearing last week. We were not asked to respond to those but after looking at his letter during the week, we decided to respond and that' s why you' re now receiving our comments. Thank you. Supervisor Powers : And that' s this October 4th memo from you to the Board. Victor Westman: Yes, I just want to note for the record that it' s filed and it had not been requested but after reviewing Mr. Morrison' s letter after the meeting, we decided that we should file at least some sort of response for the record. Thank you. Supervisor Powers : Let me ask all of the staff collectively and those who represent BFI or ACME or anybody related thereto. Has 4 there been a letter or written document sent to this County which reflects conditions upon which the rates, the proprietary rates will be reduced? Has anyone in staff first of all received such correspondence . Mr. Bruen, I' ll ask you when you come up. I'm searching for. I understood the day that the representation orally was made that $39 was the rate that there had been some written document circulating in the Board Room and it hasn' t turned up yet and I wanted to know if maybe you can answer that now. Tom Bruen: Well, if I'm not mistaken, I believe we did provide the Board with a letter I think two or three hearings back. We've made proposals to the Central Contra Costa Solid Authority and to the BFI Franchises which would result in the rate, the combined rate for the transfer station and the landfill at Keller Canyon being reduced to $39 . 00 a ton in exchange for 17 months wastestream commitment . And it' s our understanding, the Solid Waste Authority is considering that proposal on its October 13th agenda. Supervisor Powers : Did you submit anything to us reflecting that you would reduce your rates if we reduced the fees . I mean irrespective of conditions for how long or whatever. Tom Bruen: Not in so many words, no. I believe we submitted a proposal to this Board soliciting a wastestream agreement from the County for the unincorporated area. Supervisor Powers : For the same period of time? Tom Bruen: For that same period of time . Similar to what we've indicated other jurisdictions we' d be willing to enter into. And we have had discussions with a number of City Managers in the County and it' s our understanding that a number of jurisdictions are going to be considering that proposal within the next several weeks . Supervisor Powers : So, if in fact, we did not enter into an agreement with you to for the period, of time that you've suggested, that therefore the rate would not be reduced to $39 . 00 . For instance, if we were to franchise any of the unincorporated area haulers that would come to you and we did not direct them or they did not wish to enter into an agreement that was on the terms and conditions that you requested, that you would not reduce the rate to $39 . 00 . Tom Bruen: Well, I think it' s important to note first of all that we' re talking about rates that are going to be charged at the permanent transfer station. We hope that will start operation in October. It' s my understanding that the gate rate at the permanent transfer station for uncommitted waste will be substantially less than the current total of the proprietary rates for the interim station and Keller Canyon. I don' t think that rates been set yet . It will be more than $39 . 00 a ton. Somewhere in the $40 to $50 a ton range is my understanding. And that would go into effect when the permanent transfer station opens its doors . Supervisor Powers : Okay, now is it accurate that the $39 . 00 rate would go that was predicated on all the unincorporated waste going to ACME/Keller. Tom Bruen: Well, not all of the unincorporated waste because some of the County' s wastestream permits unincorporated area has already been committed to the West County Transfer Station and you know we need to hear back from the County as to what kind of commitment if any the County wanted to make . We've made proposals to individual cities that weren' t conditioned on other cities also committing their wastestream so, I think at this point, we' re waiting to hear back from the Board. 5 Supervisor Powers : Thank you very much. Okay, we have Frank Aiello and Lance Dow to speak and whatever order. You guys talk a lot together so whatever order. Frank Aiello: Good afternoon. I think we've just had a confirmation that there was a rate proposal before this Board and again I will reiterate as I did last week that this Board still rate regulates Keller Canyon under conditions 12 . 1 through 12 . 6 of the land use permit . And along with those conditions, full financial disclosure has to be made along with the rate proposal . So, I would assume that any rate proposal that was made to this Board did have full financial disclosure . Otherwise that was a clear violation of the land use permit that was issued. Was there any financial disclosure to this Board that anybody is aware of . Was there any audit papers submitted. Supervisor Powers : We' ll get some answers . Frank Aiello: I know. Nice snicker over there Tom. Supervisor Powers : We could try to get answers for you Frank at the conclusion of your testimony. Frank Aiello: I wanted to comment briefly. Supervisor DeSaulnier made a comment last week that Mr. Dow and myself will be happy if this landfill were to shut down. I think that about ten years ago, Citizens United started up and Mr. Torlakson was involved in that . Citizens United wanted no landfills in East County. With Keller sure we wanted it shut down and sure we wanted and Concord wanted it shut down. But we have to look at the realistics of the situation. Keller is there and we have to deal with it and the homeowners next to it have to deal with it and the realistic problem that we have is that we' re not getting fair and equitable treatment from the landfill operator. And I think I can point to a few things that have happened recently. Recently Bailey Road had a collapse I think most of you all know this morning. There' s no alternative route to the landfill . Trucks are being routed through Bay Point . Willow Pass Road down Railroad Avenue through the City of Pittsburg, down Leland Avenue through all residential neighborhoods up to the landfill . Now this is not the firs time . We had a gas explosion. We had a fire at Keller Canyon Landfill property. This is the fourth time. How can we alleviate the problem if there is no alternative route . We suggest that there be an alternative route from the south, coming through the City of Concord. Now if we do that, that transportation fund has to stay intact because there are going to be impacts to Bailey Road coming from the other way and that road must be improved in its entirety to take the impact of those trucks coming from the other way. We do need an alternative route. At current time, one does not exist . And we have seen clearly over the past year that with four instances we do need one . I don' t think it would be as in Ms . Bishop' s statement she didn' t want to live next to a landfill . Well, I don' t think you'd want contaminated soils trucks passing through your front yard either. And that' s clearly what happened today. So, I think that has to be considered when you're considering fees . I also think it has to be considered in a June 13th letter made by Mr. Westman to the Board that in order to reduce these fees, you will have to double tonnages at the landfill in order to maintain environmental control and Mr. Alexeeff made a statement in the paper, stating that the first thing to go at Keller should you reduce these fees would be environmental control and the cities of Bay Point and Pittsburg should be worried. I think that' s a very serious statement and we are very worried. We have just had an admission by County staff that environmental control is going to be sacrificed. Are we going to sacrifice human lives . I don' t want to see that happen and I think this Board knows what the right decision is . I think we need to leave those fees intact . The statute of limitations has expired. County staff told us that last week. This was not an 6 Z a, arrangement . This was a contract . This was a agreement by BFI with the County for doing business in Contra Costa County. It' s as simple as that . We have no obligation as citizens to help BFI compete in this county. We have no obligation. They made that commitment . They signed the dotted line . Nobody put "the gun to their head" and said sign this contract . They were willing to sign that because they got the landfill . Well, you got it now you got to live with what you signed with. Thank you. Supervisor Bishop: I actually have a question of staff . Mr. Alexeeff let me ask you a question. Instead of using the ACME transfer station you were to use the Pittsburg Transfer station if that were to be utilized. If there were a failure at Bailey Road such as we had this morning. Where, if those trucks going from Pittsburg to Solano County the most direct route would be what . Down Highway 4? Val Alexeeff : There are surface streets through the north side of Pittsburg that probably would bypass whatever the problem was. As long as Port Chicago is open, that would be an alternate route though it' s not a very good one. Supervisor Bishop: So they would all, so that would be an alternate route that if we were utilizing solano or if pittsburg using the Pittsburg Transfer Station, that would happen is that correct . Val Alexeeff : Yeah or they would go up the opposite way up through Rio Vista. I guess it depends on what the problem is . But I think that it' s important I think from the testimony and just the circumstances to take a look at some kind of an alternate route structure for any transfer station landfill combination. I think that' s a worthwhile endeavor and it' s something I think we' ll take a look at anyway. Supervisor Powers : Okay, Lance Dow and I would like that letter. I never saw that letter that was referred to us from BFI . You haven' t got it okay. Lance Dow: Good afternoon Board. I think Miss Bishop is right . This isn' t a very complex issue. The issue that' s before us is the amendment and basically what we' re talking about is fees and I'm not real clear by what the County staff has presented if we' re still talking about area of origin. It' s not real clear but that also would be a very big issue but I' ll just address the fees right now and I think Mr. Aiello pretty much hit on it . We had a garbage conglomerate come here and promise to do all sorts of things and over the last three years, a lot of us, especially those that live next to the landfill have seen a lot of those promises go by the wayside. And the fact remains that the main promises that they made were the transportation and open space . They knew that those were things that certain Board members wanted and so to get their landfill they committed to that . And here we are again today talking about competition and really what we' re talking about is selling out your constituents . I think you have to understand what the County, the County as far as I can see has done enough. They've sited a garbage dump, they lowered the fees, they gave the Central County cities the lowest legal rate, so you've done your job. And I think it' s time for the cities if they want lower rates, if they want to use that garbage dump, then they're going to pay the price to the host communities, to our infrastructure, etc. etc . Now if they don' t want to use the landfill then obviously they' re not obligated to do that but once again I just want to express to this Board that these were commitments that were made and that they should be kept . Thank you. Supervisor Powers : Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Dow for your testimony. I saw some yellow cards flipping around out there but I haven' t gotten any additional ones so unless there is 7 someone who stands up and wishes to speak at this time, then testimony will be closed on the issue. I do well I better wait till two Board members come back because I think it may require full participation of the Board particularly Mr. Torlakson in this because a lot of it has an impact on his . .maybe we can keep going till they get back. I know that they have gone upstairs for a moment Mark and Tom Torlakson to talk about a hospital issue and so that' s all I was told but they will be back. In the meantime, Jeff, guy on theleft . Supervisor Smith: I have a question. It' s alright it' s not that important . As we've been struggling through all of this with all the newspaper coverage and everything you can imagine, we've all gotten lobbied by constituents considerably and a question was asked of me by a friend the other day that I had a hard time answering and so I'm hoping you can answer it for me. 2 and a half years ago, the Keller Landfill began to accept waste and did so with a interim fee or interim charges . Under rate review by the Board of Supervisors with the analysis being that there was a big profit range, profit margin, fixed expenses and the fee being charged by the governmental entity were fixed as we talked about numerous times . In that 2 and a half years, my understanding is that basically everything has been charged about the same rate some moderate change . The question is now Keller is saying that they can operate at $39 . 00 for proprietary rate rather than $62 or $63 a ton so about a $22 or $23 a ton difference . But over the entire preceding 2 and a half years that $23 a ton been charged about 300, 000 tons a year so if you calculate that up that' s somewhere in the 17 million dollar range over that time period. Their question was how can the Board accept a lowering of the proprietary rate and still justify the previous action that they took. Because essentially when BFI came to this Board previously they were saying we need that 17 million dollars to be profit . Now, you' re saying you don' t need it . So the question they raised to me is isn' t the rate payer entitled to a refund of the $17 million dollars . How do I respond to this . Tom Bruen: Well, I think you would respond to your constituent by going back to the assumptions made by Deloitte Touche when the rate was originally set for the Keller Canyon Landfill . Deloitte Touche assumed that Keller Canyon would receive all of the County' s wastestream except that portion going to the West County Landfill . For starters, that didn' t happen. And as soon as you adjust that assumption and look at the impact on Keller Canyon' s profit picture by taking away all of the wastestream that Garaventa Enterprises essentially which went to Potrero Hills starting about two years ago roughly. That not only didn' t result in the landfill making the kind of profit that Deloitte Touche recommended this Board they make for all the risks attendant to siting a landfill, but also that rate didn' t take into account because we BFI haven' t gone into this Board for any rate increase since then the additional capital expenditures that have been poured into this landfill . The landfill in short has not made anywhere near the profits that Deloitte Touche originally recommended to the prior Board of Supervisors as being a fair rate of return for the size of their investment and the risk associated with that investment . How is it that BFI can offer a lower rate now, well I think if you adopt the assumption which is incorrect that BFI is going to be making a substantial profit at $39 a ton then maybe it' s a legitimate question but the fact of the matter is that BFI has spent about 100 million dollars on a fixed investment at Keller Canyon. It is not an investment that can be put on large tires and brought to another County where maybe rates are more favorable . And so they' re put in a position where they' re trying to recoup as much of that investment as possible or at least cover the interest on that investment . Under a $39 a ton proposal, BFI would not be able to recover its investment in that landfill unless thing dramatically change in the market in the future and perhaps larger volumes of waste become available maybe a prospect for waste from other 8 jurisdictions but they will be operating at a loss at $39 a ton when you consider their fixed investment in the landfill and it will be a considerable loss in the short term. Supervisor Smith: I think you've hit on the thing that is confusing to me or at least a conundrum because the previous environment was certainly less risky than the current environment because there was a presumption essentially of monopoly and that was changed by the Supreme Court ruling, had you know you point out that Deloitte Touche presumed that all the waste was going to Keller except for the West County. So, those two factors would argue that actually that the $77 ton rate, Keller should have made even more money because they should have been getting more waste, less risk. Now, we' re going to a more risky environment, Imean they were getting more waste less risk, now we' re going to have a more risky environment less waste and you' re saying that either you' re going to make much less profit or maybe even lose money on using the landfills . And I guess from the perspective of the County, I wonder which one it is . I mean if you' re going to go bankrupt at $39 a ton, that' s a problem. If on the other hand, the $77 a ton was much more than it cost to actually pay for overhead plus a reasonable profit, that' s a problem too. I just have a hard time explaining it to constituents who ask me how come I've been paying this extra money. Don' t I get a refund if we' re changing the rate. Tom Bruen: Well, I don' t think I agree with your analysis, Jeff . First of all because the landfill didn' t receive the volume it was anticipated it would receive, it didn' t receive the profit that it was anticipated it would receive . It' s not that we' re going to be making a smaller profit at $39 a ton. That number will not provide a profit when you consider the landfill' s fixed costs . It' s as simple as that . When I was in college, I had this economic textbook from a professor by the name of Paul Samuelson and it' s a little esoteric but businesses have twokinds of costs . Fixed costs and marginal costs . The marginal costs are the incremental costs associated with manufacturing that extra widget . So, what basically Samuelson said is if you' re a rational business person, and your widget costs . 10 to make and you can sell it for . 11, and that' s the market, you' ll make that widget even if you have a huge fixed investment that you' re not covering because you at least got one penny that you can put against that fixed investment . That' s essentially the position that BFI' s in. Because of the considerable capital investment in a modern up to date landfill, they have a huge fixed investment and if they can even cover the interest on that investment or a portion of the interest on that investment, it still makes sense for them not to close their doors . You referred to bankruptcy. Well, obviously BFI is a large company and it has a lot of other businesses. If this were a company with only that business, I'm sure the shareholders would be very disappointed. I'm sure they' re disappointed as it is. You know, obviously that' s not a concern given the size of the company. Supervisor Smith: Well, actually you brought up the issue more eloquently than I can in terms of the comparison of marginal cost versus fixed cost . Of course, ultimately somewhere along the line you let' s use the example of making widgets . Somewhere you have to face up to the reality, even if you' re making a dollar a widget, you have 100 million dollars that you've already invested. Somebody has to end up paying off that 100 million dollars . And that' s the question I have is that if what you' re telling me is Keller Landfill Corporation is going to be losing money on the operation of the landfill but able to use the marginal income to survive temporarily what' s going to happen down the line. Tom Bruen: That' s not what I'm telling you. What I'm telling you is they've already spent the money. It' s they've already written the check 100 million dollars the landfill is there, they 9 can' t move it, so now they have to make economic decisions based upon this point forward. It' s reasonable for them so long as they cover their cost of operations and if they can recoup something over and above that to stay in business, I assure you they have a lot of people who are very much sophisticated in questions of finance and operations much more so than I that have to make these hard decisions. And they are hard decisions to make but really it' s a question of survival at this point . There' s no question in my mind that the company has very substantial assets . It' s a New York Stock Exchange Company. The second largest solid waste company in the world. So, it' s going to stay in business I can assure you of that no matter how bad their investment at Keller Canyon may turn out to be viewed as a single investment . Supervisor Powers : Okay, I'm going on this same lines Mr. Bruen. I did want to ask you a few questions . I do recall what happened not all the details but the essence of what happened when we set the rates . It was my understanding the rate you requested was around $95 a ton and that the consultant in evaluating the amount of tonnage at the time didn' t evaluate all the waste but about 250, 000 tons and came back to us and said you would make a profit at about $77 a ton including fees and that profit I think was estimated to be about 11 percent if I'm not . . in any event, you accepted that interim rate at $77 as opposed to $95 indicating that there was some profit and then raised the questions about a couple of things I recall . One was the continued ability to monitor some of the environmental issues because there wasn' t enough revenues and two, to continue to extend the landfill' s permit and I think we' re talking about some of the regional and state permits . As I understand it you only have a Phase I permit from the Regional Water Quality Control Board and that you' ll need at some time in the future to go back and extend those environmental permits . I guess that set of circumstances raises further question about going down to $39 proprietary rate creates even further risk from the one you had indicated before at $77 and I'm just wondering how we feel assured particularly in view of some of those conditions in the land use permit being eliminated as to how we can explain to the residents particularly those in the environs of the landfill, how the environmental issues are going to be addressed at a losing proposition. Tom Bruen: Well, that' s the first time I've heard anyone express a concern about BFI' s ability to pay for mitigation measures . I can assure you that the parent company Browning Ferris Industries which is located in Houston Texas has provided this County with a parent company guarantee of all the Keller Canyon Landfill Company' s obligations to this County. I'm not aware of any relationship between the amount of money for "environmental mitigation" and what our proprietary rate is . It seems to me they' re unrelated. With respect to the Water Board and you indicated you thought you heard we had a Phase I permit . We have a waste discharge requirement from the Water Board. As with any landfill, those are renewable every five years . We have to give reports everytime we build a new unit or phase to the Water Board indicating how it' s going to be built and how it will comply with those regulations . We' re in full compliance with our water permit and all of our other permits and I don' t think anyone has suggested to us that the amount of our proprietary rates is somehow going to jeopardize our ability to comply with our permits . The parent company stands behind this operation like all of its operations and so far as I'm concerned, that really shouldn' t be an issue . Supervisor Powers : Well, one of the reasons that we in government here try to make sure we don' t know what' s happening back home and we don' t know whether you will institute what most businesses do when they start losing money is start cutting corners and that' s the problem. It isn' t so much that we don' t have faith in your corporation you know, we don' t own stock in 10 your corporation, and we don' t decide on who spends things but we do have the ability to protect the public and we have the duty to protect the public and so we don' t know what you' re going to do in terms of business practices and I'm always worried when you or anybody says they' re not making money, that they might try to find a way to cut corners, so despite the reputation of the company and I must say you get different opinions about that, we have the obligation to do those kind of things . Tom Bruen: All I can tell you is that Keller Canyon Landfill Company is closely regulated by a number of regulatory agencies . Bay Area Air Quality Management district, the Regional Water Quality Control Board, the California Department of Fish and Game, U. S. Army Corps of Engineers . And the landfill has an excellent compliance record. Anything that BFI would do at any site would affect its relationship with those agencies at all of its sites . No one has ever suggested that the company would cut any corners when it comes to environmental regulation. There' s no evidence of that and I don't think that should be a concern. Supervisor Powers : I appreciate that but when as you did when you filed for the land use permit ask to have certain conditions changed including changing from the County geologist to a geologist hired by you and by changing the mitigation monitoring program outside of County to something paid directly by you, I and asking for other modifications that were put originally in this land use permit in the Board' s estimation and maybe those change for protecting the Community from the possible contingencies. Just like we have a fire station for fires . We felt it was important and so I begin to worry. That' s all I'm saying. Appreciate your representation. Supervisor Bishop: I have a few questions if for no other reason than to provide some balance in the questioning. It almost brings to mind a joke that I recall many years ago when I lived in Florida and civil rights was quite the issue and I worked on a lot of voter registration issues and the joke about the African/American who was being qualified to vote and he was shown a sign and it was an excerpt from I'm trying to thinkof Aristophenes or one of those discourses and he says would you read the sign and the African American says that sign says this is one African American only a different expletive who is not going to get to vote today. I think the nature of the questions that you've had over the series of the past few months basically says Mr. Bruen that BFI is not going to get the support of certain members of this Board. I do have some questions and perhaps I will address them to you. One is the piece of paper that was provided by Supervisor Powers . I would at some point like you to respond to this why on October 3rd, we are still, you know the rate is still what it is . That is one of my questions but also, I'm looking through trying I had gone through the conditions that were being considered under the land use permit and which ones were being changed or deleted and of course, one of those conditions related to export and the limitation on the receiving waste from out of county which the law has changed and my going through the conditions the substantive conditions attached to that land use permit, correct me if I'm wrong but most of those are housekeeping and most of those do do they not relate to things no longer applicable or they are not truly substantive changes is that that is my read on the matter. Tom Bruen: Well, let me answer that in two ways . First of all, the change in the import/export language was recommended by the Planning Commission based on a staff recommendation to be deleted from the proposed amendments before you so the import/export language in the use permit would remain the same under the Planning Commission recommendation that' s before you. It was my understanding and remains my understanding that all of the other changes were put together based on our application by your staff in an effort to be consistent with resolution which Supervisor 11 1, 1 Smith offered several months ago to try to take all of the County fees that were fixed in stone in the use permit and transfer the ability to determine the amount of those fees over to the franchise agreement so this Board would have flexibility in determining how to spend the money raised through surcharges at Keller Canyon and the franchise agreements approved by this Board several weeks ago basically envision that kind of scenario where the percentage surcharge represents an overall cap on the use permit fees . So, the whole idea of these amendments as I understood it was to clean up the use permit to give this Board discretion to act in accordance with its view of the best interests of the rate payers and public policy. Right now the use permit ties your hands in that regard. So, I would concur that I regard them as being housekeeping items in that sense . Supervisor Bishop: moving on to another subject raised by both Supervisor Smith and Supervisor Powers regarding the financial ability of BFI to perform in the event that mitigation should go beyond what our fees are and to your proprietary having recourse to BFI, I am not as experienced obviously in water resource matters etc . and regulatory agencies, government regulatory agencies of that kind but I am quite familiar with securities and exchange commission regulations and the regulation that you file quarterly 10K and you file or 10Q' s and 1OK' s on an annual basis that reflects what your annual financial report looks like . What are the assets, the unencumbered assets of BFI, what would you estimate that to be . I mean dollar amounts not enumeration of them but . . Tom Bruen: I believe it' s a multi billion dollar company but I don' t have that specific answer. I'd be happy to provide that to you. Supervisor Bishop: I must share with you and maybe I have previously but I was amazed Supervisor Powers and I were in the United Kingdom a few weeks ago and I looked up and I could not believe I could not get away from Solid Waste but there was a BFI truck going down the street . Supervisor DeSaulnier: were you in England together. Supervisor bishop: Oh, no. anyway I think that answers my question. Can you answer this question. Tom Bruen: Well, yes, I think I had already addressed that . The rates, the proprietary rates at ACME will go down when the permanent station opens and they will go down to somewhere in the vicinity of $40 to $50 a ton for waste that hasn' t been committed on any long term basis . The $39 a ton rate is being offered to the jurisdictions and this County in exchange for a 17 month commitment . Supervisor Bishop: Let me ask you this . Now this was from Garaventa and my understanding was that Garaventa was going is Garaventa currently going to the temporary transfer station. I thought they were going to Solano County. Tom Bruen: I have heard I haven' t followed any trucks there . I have heard that most of Garaventa Enterprises' fleet is going to the Protrero Hills Landfill . I have seen some trucks going to the West County Landfill but I don' t know if they' re carrying yard waste or what . Supervisor Powers : Do you have any reason to believe that that' s not an accurate representation of a gate rate ticket from the ACME/Keller Landfill . Tom Bruen: Well, to be honest with you , I've never seen one of their tickets before . Idon' t deny it but I've never seen one so I can' t tell you. 12 • Supervisor Powers : Well, you don' t deny the fact that the rate is still about $77 . Tom Bruen: It' s 76 . 88, that' s the current rate per ton until the permanent station opens yes . Supervisor DeSaulnier: Tom, before you leave, I have a question. You are offering and you have offered the $39 rate which is the same rate that you offered before we came out of closed session when you were trying to get us to commit for 7 years with two 7 year options . So, where is in your mind, where is what we have in front of us now any different from what you were offering many lifetimes ago, was it five months ago. Where are we different today than we were . . . Tom Bruen: Well, I' ll tell you what I think a difference is . The difference is that the prior proposal was a 21 year lock in on a rate. The proposal that' s on the table right now is a 17 month lock in which is not to say and we've suggested to Solid Waste Authority not suggested, they've asked if we'd be willing to extend that for another 7 year option at their request with CPI and various adjustments and we've said we' d do that and we'd do the same for other jurisdictions as well, so I think the short answer is I believe there' s an advantage in tying down a rate over a period of years because I think that rates are going to climb probably dramatically so over time . And if it were me and I were a city, I'd want a longer term agreement rather than a short term agreement . If the County wants a longer term agreement, we' re happy to negotiate that as well . Certainly the rate is the same. Supervisor DeSaulnier: Well, I think the question is where are you sitting and right now with all of you competing with one another, we will I think all of the franchisees want to get to the point where that just right point and then we want to commit our waste so that it' s as low as possible so I guess my point being my first question is what we have in front of us in terms of the fees that we will charge and the fees that you will charge are very similar to what you were asking us to vote for four months ago. Tom Bruen: Yes, with the exception that I think under the proposal that was before the Board in June there was at least suggestion or proposal by the cities that the County reduce its fees below $10 a ton, the total state and County fee so they' re now at $12 . 24 but that would be the only difference . Supervisor DeSaulnier: We also had $2 included in that for post closure. Tom Bruen: True . Supervisor DeSaulnier: so, we' re very, very close. Tom Bruen: Okay.. Supervisor DeSaulnier: That' s all I wanted to get from you. Thanks . Supervisor Torlakson: Mr. Chairman, I had a question for Mr. Bruen relating to the Mr. Bruen related to the report from Mr. Westman last week on the land use permit . There was the indication that the original LUP conditions on open space and transportation, the mitigation fees, were something that BFI had basically agreed to and not challenged and the statute of challenge period had expired. If there is any change and I don' t know that there should be I expressed this last time whether those fees are relabeled or whether they' re batched together in generic mitigation LUP condition, is BFI willing to say you' ll agree to any or all such combinations or you know what is your 13 thinking about that in terms of challenging that because basically what' s in there now is locked in and secure unless this Board changes it . No one can legally challenge and undo it . If we change even a few words or change the numbers in any way that is open to your challenge and I'm wondering if you have thought that through and have a company position on that . Tom Bruen: Well, I' ll try to answer that question. We support the staff recommendation and the recommendation of the Planning Commission that' s before you with respect to the use permit . We certainly wouldn' t challenge that . The Franchise Agreement has an anti challenge clause in it that says if we challenge anything the County does under the Franchise Agreement it makes the Franchise Agreement null and void. I think the use permit has similar provision. And you' re right there has been no challenge by BFI to any provision in the Franchise Agreement or the use permit . I the only reason I'm hesitating Tom is the way you phrase the question, you were asking me under any circumstances would BFI object and I guess I could conjure up some circumstances where they might but certainly we support the recommendation that' s before you. Supervisor torlakson: And what is that exactly as it relates to the LUP on the LUP what does it exactly say in your staff recommendation? Vic Westman: Perhaps Mr. Chairman you may want to ask Mr Bruen is BFI going to accept the Franchises which the county has offered to them. The amendments to the LUP are to some extent premised on the acceptance of the franchises that you approved a few weeks ago and at least as of right now, I'm not aware that BFI has accepted those franchises . Supervisor torlakson: I .think that' s a good question to go along with this one . Tom Bruen: The answer is yes . There are a couple of clerical changes that we need to make in the agreement where we think the franchise agreement doesn' t reflect what this Board did but other than that yeah I think the agreements are, I think we already told you the form of the agreements were acceptable to us . So, that answer the question? Supervisor Powers : Okay. Val Alexeeff : On the LUP specifically. I don' t think we can put in a poison pill in it where it self-destructs if anybody challenges it . Supervisor Torlakson: What is the language you' re proposing right now from the Planning Commission and your staff to the Board. I mean is it $4 or $0 . Val Alexeeff : No, it' s that it be determined by franchise as opposed to determined by use permit . We did not set an amount . we would not presume to do that . Supervisor torlakson: And the LUP language says that the amount will be set or is the LUP language just eliminated in your proposal? Does the LUP condition totally disappear or does it say it will be implemented in the franchise agreement . Look to the franchise agreement for it' s implementing dollar amount and spending guidelines . Chuck Zahn: Supervisor Torlakson, the proposed amendments to the Land Use Permit identify a number of program areas but leave it to the discretion of the Board in setting the amount of the fee. In other words, it' s not specified anymore in the land use permit . The Board has the ability to take it up in another instrument such as the franchise agreement . We have described 14 this amendment as an enabling amendment . Val Alexeeff : I think the intent was to make it all flexible and into the direct Board' s discretion. It was not to predispose the ultimate number. Supervisor Torlakson: That' s it . I mean that adds to my discomfort about taking it out of the LUP and removing that . Vic Westman: Well, perhaps Mr. Chairman, I would suggest you may want to consider a condition if you approve the amendments to the LUP that they won' t become operative until BFI and whatever other corporation we' re dealing with have executed the franchise. Tom Bruen: That would be fine. Vic Westman: And then the franchise itself does provide . . . Supervisor Powers : Well, I don' t think that' s what he' s getting at . He' s not getting at that . Supervisor Bishop: I understood Tom' s question a lot better than I did the answer and I think his question is a question in my mind. As a practical matter, how what we are suggesting is the land use permit still has all the mitigation measures included in the conditions but that the fee setting become a part of the franchise and the fee setting becomes can you say it in one simple sentence what would happen. No. Two simple sentences . What we are proposing taking it out of the land use permit arena and moving it into the franchise and determining one that those things will be covered but the amount will be determined under the franchise. Tom, you give it a shot : Tom Bruen: I was going to say what you' re doing is you' re removing the specific dollar amounts from the land use permit and bringing them under the umbrella of a percentage surcharge in the franchise agreement . Vic Westman: Could I perhaps add in there and at least the staff report you receive take the position that these two fees, I think we' re talking about the open space and transportation fees were not mitigation fees that were required because of a CEQA mitigation program but were imposed for other public purposes . The. . . Supervisor Powers : Everybody' s missed Tom' s point . He doesn' t like the ag and transportation fee designation eliminated. That' s his point and no matter what else you say, it doesn' t make any sense to, I mean that' s what he' s concerned about . Supervisor Bishop: I do have a question along those lines and it' s not of you Tom. It' s of staff and it may be in the report you gave us this morning but what it does it takes transportation and open space out of the land use permit and those amounts are incorporated into the surcharge but we will determine that within the surcharge and that will be determined by the County what that amount will be . But now I'm going to ask, on transportation and open space, can you even though we' re in the middle of public testimony can you tell me what has been spent . Have you provided that information, that was a question I had last week. Supervisor Powers : In the meantime while let' s while you' re looking that up, let' s have Mr. Randall Morrison testify. He submitted a card and wishes to. Randall Morrison: Thank you verymuch. I don' t have any testimony to offer but a question that I think you should consider in view of the dialogue between Supervisor Smith and Mr. Bruen. Now Mr. Bruen has told us today quite explicitly that when BFI lowers it' s rate to $39 a ton it will be operating at a 15 loss and a considerable loss . As a competitor of BFI, Valley Waste Management has a legitimate concern in knowing whether or not this whole arrangement that the County is currently discussing with BFI is going to result in a below cost predatory pricing scheme by our competitor. I think it' s of interest to you as well as to us whether or not what Mr. Bruen said is truly accurate. BFI is now going to be pricing its landfill disposal in competition with my client and others in the County at below cost . If that' s the case, I think there are some very serious competitive implications that ought to be explored. Now, I'm not prepared today to give you a dissertation on the Cartwright Act and I doubt that Mr. Bruen is either but I think this is an issue that ought to be looked into because we've been expecting to compete with a competitor who would use appropriate pricing methods and I don' t believe that operating below cost is one of those sanctioned under California law. So, I simply request and suggest that the Board consider this, maybe staff consider this and that BFI report to you a little bit more fully on what they had in mind. This could open up a whole new dimension of problems probably none of us would like to see. Supervisor Powers : I appreciate that from your perspective as a competitor. I'm not sure that I'm really concerned about it and as a regulator unless it affects our contract in some way our franchise or some other aspect of operating that company and in that respect, is that worth taking a look at or do we . . . Vic Westman: Well, we don' t regulate in that area. If Mr. Morrison that his request, perhaps we should refer this to the appropriate State or Federal authorities who consider those matters from a governmental point of view and of course, his client can always exercise his fully and adequate private civil rights to sue in this area. Supervisor Powers : Yeah, I don' t think we need to refer it anywhere . That' s not what I'm concerned about Vic . With this allegation, were it true is that going to affect anything about us doing. . . Vic Westman: No, you have removed the floor pricing and I appreciate the concern but BFI within the range of setting its proprietary rate will set it and you have at least indicated recently that you are no longer going to be involved in that area of regulation. Supervisor Powers : Very good, okay. Thank you Mr. Morrison. Supervisor Torlakson: If litigation emerged out of this issue and BFI could not charge the rates they've offered, do we have an escape clause in the franchise agreement that deals with that? In terms of any waste commitment or any other. . Vic Westman: Well, remember BFI has the option which they can. . . Supervisor Torlakson: Say if they' re forced to put the price back by some litigation to a higher level . Vic Westman: Well, that in fact may force them out of business . As I understand it competitors are offering similar or lower rates at this time and it would appear that at some point BFI will no longer be operating and of course, that' s an option they have under the LUP and the franchise is simply to not operate. Supervisor Smith: I guess I'm not concerned so much from the perspective of competition or anti-trust issues or all of that but I am concerned about the fact that the franchise under which the interim rates were set was a contract between the County and the operator that committed the operator to run at a certain profit margin at a certain fixed rate and now essentially we' re being told that they can actually operate quite a bit lower and 16 it just seems to me that a question is raised about the process and the decision and the assumptions and the information that were made two and a half years ago and whether that process was tainted by artificially inflated costs or operational costs that led the Board to allow them to charge a fee much higher than apparently now they' re able to run at and in that sense whether they owe a refund to the people who've been paying the rate in the County. And I think that' s an appropriate concern for us to have . Supervisor Powers : We spent a tremendous amount of money in consulting fees and going back and forth trying to get information from ACME and BFI and there' s a lot of data on this that' s for sure about what actually did happen during the rate setting process . I still have some in my office library and I mean we can look at it but I'm not sure where we go with that . I mean I think it' s worth looking at in terms of I mean is there a way I guess Vic if there was inappropriate pricing situation and we weren' t given the proper information can we go back and seek a refund for the rate payers . Vic Westman: Well, I think that would be very difficult considering that the Board exercised its discretion to fix a price after hearing a great deal of testimony from many sides in this matter and since the date of that, there has never been any either BFI or County initiated reconsideration of that rate setting process and as far as I know there' s been no studies done specifically to support any change in those rates . Supervisor Powers : Assuming we did a study to indicate that historically the information was not accurate, now that we' re giving up rate regulation, we can' t jump out of the situation and ask them to even reduce a lower rate in order to gather that back from them. Vic Westman: Well, I don' t know if the rate, if the information that was provided by BFI to our consultants was not accurate at the time . I mean it was a very complex process and we did hire a consultant who did review a lot of information and then provide us with the consultant' s recommendation. Whether any of that information that the consultant evaluated was incorrect, I don' t believe that' s ever been established. Even the Grand Jury does not even purport to establish that in their report . If you want that examined, you'd have to direct staff . . Supervisor Smith: Well, that' s why I raised it now because actually until this land use permit is modified, we have not really forgone rate regulation. I raise it at this point, because if we take this step forever if this is a concern we never have the option of dealing with that issue in the future. Whether we want to or not is another question. Supervisor Bishop: What is before us is the land use permit and the open space and the transportation aspect, the $2 and $2 as far they were phrased mitigation, but I think in looking at how those funds have been expended, it is appropriate for us to determine I think whether or not we are truly talking about mitigation. Under transportation, I there' s no question but there is mitigation, that there is a nexus between the impact of the landfill and the transfer station and what the funds are being spent on. For example, going down in 92, 93 , 93-94 , Bailey Road widening, traffic signs Evora Road, litter pickup, route restriction enforcement so on and so forth. I think there is a clear nexus there. On open space, I have some real problems . Rodent and thistle control, tree planting, East Bay Regional Park District trail maintenance, Ambrose Wetlands mitigation, farm bureau, the ag soils bank and the audubon outreach, I mean I'm just going over those. In both of those, there was a fund balance for 92-93 of $236, 000 in the transportation and $395, 000 in open space . My view is perhaps transportation we are 17 addressing mitigation. In open space, we are talking about other County needs and other County programs that I think are not directly tied to the landfill and the transfer station. I think within the structure that we have and the surcharge and the percentage amount that easily we could address some of the same issues that are addressed here and the issues are going to be the same from year to year rather than having to go through the land use permit process that it is something that is appropriate for the purvue of this Board and we will take a continuing interest in it . I feel that yes we took a step, a very small step in the direction of reducing our fees. I feel as I said initially, that by getting . it down to someplace in the range of $7 or even lower than that . But the first priority going toward just host mitigation and within that host mitigation talk about transportation because I think basically that' s what we' re trying to mitigate, transportation and something that comes back to the host community out of that percentage surcharge but frankly, to deal with the land use permit and set up that mechanism does not seem particularly productive and looking at the numbers and how the dollars were spent, clearly we had fund balances both years in both of those mitigation fees and—that' s my. . . Supervisor Powers : Thank you for your comments . I asked staff for a copy of a letter that apparently was circulated in the Board Room two weeks ago about the conditions and the setting of the rate . I'm informed that the staff never got that letter. It just got circulated around and where it went I dont' know, nobody does . Supervisor Bishop: Who was the letter from? Supervisor Powers : I don' t know. Purported to be from BFI or ACME or Mr. Bruen or somebody in that crowd about what they were doing with rates . I feel extremely insecure about making a decision today about a very complicated set of circumstances dealing with the franchise agreements which now we understand there are "some clerical changes that need to be made" , with the land use permit relationship with the franchise agreement, and with particularly disturbed the fact that this Board made a good faith effort to try to reduce the rates and now we understand the conditions are changed or they weren' t sincere . I want a letter with a commitment from BFI to this County about what will happen if the rates that we reduce are implemented and what they will do. I want to know what they will do and I want to have something in writing from an appropriate person that has the ability to make that commitment and I want to take the opportunity to figure out how the land use permit provisions relate to the franchise agreement so I just ask for one week to do that and we can in the meantime absorb all of this and hopefully Mr. Bruen you've heard my request for that letter and I appreciate having it as soon as possible. Supervisor Smith: Can I make one request . I attended the Contra Costa Solid Waste Authority meeting now two weeks ago when we presented to them our intent, our letter of intent to join and they were anxious to get moving with that . I wonder if we might at least proceed with authorizing the staff to proceed with that effort to join the Solid Waste Authority. Supervisor Powres : I'm not sure I agree with all of the conditions they've imposed on it but I think we ought to respond that yes, we want to negotiate some arrangement . Supervisor Smith: Well, I think the bottom line that I represented and I think the Board agreed was that we need when we join we need to be equal partners with all the cities with no external otherwise unreasonable requirements and no other limitations on our authority. So, I'd make the motion that we authorize staff to draft documents to join the Solid Waste Authority. 18 Supervisor Powers : Motion and a second. Any further discussion? If none, all in favor of the motion signify by saying aye . And is there objection to putting the matter over one week. I' d like to see the franchise back with proposed clerical changes and there may be some changes that this Board is going to consider too because of the interrelationship between the land use permit . The land use permit and those items should be on the agenda. Vic Westman: You' re continuing the hearing on the land use permit till next week at whatever time 2 o' clock. Supervisor Powers : That' s correct . What' s a good time? Morning? No time is a good time. 2 o' clock again. Okay. Supervisor Torlakson: Mr. Chairman, along with the request you've made I want to further explore and I want to express my concern about changing the land use permit and understand better between now and next week the mechanisms by which the franchise agreement either the dollar amounts or the dedication of funds can be changed. What guidelines do we have . Is there just three votes on any given noticed hearing of the Board on any given Tuesday. I'm speaking on behalf of the community of Pittsburg and Bay Point that are the host communities in terms of what they expected and what the guarantee of the land use permit is in terms of both the environmental process which included CEQA but also the environmental review/public discussion process which involved everybody coming in with information and those fees getting locked into the land use permit . So, for the City of Pittsburg' s point of view, the Bay Point Municipal Council' s point of view, for Citizens United and property owners, the LUP is a place that' s pretty firm. Where the franchise agreement is sort of in never, never land in terms of something could change next month a different alignment of Board members on different issues . THe money that might be earmarked or dedicated to the community might go to something else instead. So, that' s the kind of thing I wanted explored and I will be looking at with staff between now and next week. Supervisor Powers : Okay. Val did you have . . Val Alexeeff : Yeah, did you want us to prepare any alternatives for that or were you going to prepare them yourself . I'm not sure of the direction on how the Board would make such a decision. Supervisor Powers : I'm not sure there' s any direction at this point but clearly we'd like to know about the letter from ACME Keller. We' d like to have some indication about what those "clerical changes" are and if you have anything to add please feel free to do. Supervisor DeSaulnier: For me, I think it would be helpful if you came up with some options . I mean it doesn' t say the Board is going to take it but as Supervisor Bishop said an hour and a half ago, we get into the quagmire of it would be nice to finally make some decisions on garbage. Supervisor Powers : Okay, that will be fine. Without objection the matter and the hearings are put over. We also want the franchise on at the same time . And the alternatives, so, we take five minutes and then we' ll go to the Concord Diamond issue . 19 7